On Saturday night, a male Recorded Music student at NYU tragically passed away. Although the NYPD has yet to officially confirm the death as a suicide, Recorded Music students were told last night that the student did “take his own life.”
If you want to discuss this or any other problems that you’re experiencing, please remember that the Wellness Center is available to help 24/7 at 212-443-9999.
Read NYU’s statement after the jump, as well as an account of what the gathering of ReMu students was like last night.
John Beckman, Vice President of Public Affairs, supplied us with an explanation of why no University-wide email went out and offered some important and kind words.
In terms of notifications – we are proceeding with talking with classmates and friends on a face-to-face basis with the involvement of counselors, which we think is the best way to handle conveying this information, and is consistent with the parents’ wishes for this to be treated with the greatest possible degree of privacy and discretion. We hope that, in addition to the guidelines above, you will take the family’s wishes and circumstances into account, too.
It is tragic whenever someone so young dies; every one of us should understand and remember and remind one another that regardless of the difficulty one is facing, however challenging it may seem at the moment, there are people here to help you through.
We want to remind members of the NYU community that we have considerable resources to help, most importantly the availability of 24/7 counseling and support through the Wellness Exchange (212 443 9999, or 999 from any campus phone, or at wellness.exchange@nyu.edu), and that reaching out for help for yourself – or extending a hand to make sure someone else gets help – is a sign of strength.
We are working with the student’s family to support them during this difficult period. I am sure I speak for the entire NYU community when I say that our thoughts and deepest sympathies are with the family, friends, and loved ones of this young man.
After news of the event started trickling out to the public, Jeff Rabhan, the chair of the Recorded Music program sent out an email calling for all of the program’s students to meet that night at Hemmerdinger Hall. Here’s one student’s account of what that event was like:
NYU has no community. You hear that line so many times it has become rote and stale, but it’s true. In all likelihood, we don’t know you. We haven’t smiled at you, borrowed your pencil, or shared a sideways glance. Our natural state is disunity. Instead, we have little communities–pockets of belonging in a chaotic abyss, like planets swirling in a thousand interacting orbits. Last night, one of those pockets came together, even as it shattered in the wake of a student’s suicide.
The Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music listserv lists 146 students enrolled in the program. As programs within NYU go, it is among the most tight-knit and smallest–students come to know each other through contact in the small hallways and collaboration in the facilities of 194 Mercer’s fifth floor. School-wide emails are often addressed to “Remufam,” and closed with “love…” This creates something beyond a school for future pop stars and producers.
The entire staff and student body of the Recorded Music program gathered last night in Silver’s Hemmerdinger Hall to comfort, inform, and sometimes just hug each other in the immediate aftermath of a student’s suicide. The initial mood was shocked–after Dean of Students Jeff Rabhan spoke, the entire room sat in paralyzed silence for what felt like minutes–and broken.
Finally, when the students and staff broke open, the feelings poured out. Staff and students told stories of shock, betrayal, sadness, perseverance, and sometimes pure creative respect. It took a half-hour for anyone to move an inch, but eventually the paralysis broke. Suddenly freshmen were hugging seniors and professors were hugging students–everyone from the student’s closest friends to complete strangers were grasping at shoulders for some kind of connection.
Call it what it is–at Hemmerdinger Hall, there was a community.
I had a horrible experience with the NYU wellness services and I warn anyone reading this NOT to trust them. I was treated with contempt and harassed by the counselor even though I had done nothing wrong. He made me feel extremely uncomfortable in his office and I sincerely regret going there. After the incident, I’m no longer surprised that NYU has one of the highest suicide rates in the country – even the counselors here belittle and harass vulnerable students who come to them for help. I was really disgusted by my experience and it is too bad that articles such as this continue to urge students to visit the Wellness Center – they will NOT help you so don’t waste your time. Also if you tell them you’re suicidal, they will contact the Dean of your school to get you permanently expelled (because obviously more stress is ideal for a suicidal person).
Sarah: I understand every situation is different, but I entirely disagree. Last year I was suffering from severe depression and contemplated doing unspeakable things. I sought help and the Wellness Center was phenomenal. The staff there got me in to see both a doctor and a counselor immediately and wasted no time in helping me out. My counselor listened to me and helped me develop the tools necessary to get through a difficult time in my life. My doctor also gave me medication that took effect very quickly. I am as critical of NYU as anyone, but without the help of the Wellness Center, I don’t even want to think about where I would be today. I would recommend it to anyone who feels like they are in need of help.
Joe, I’m genuinely glad that they were able to help you and that their are some nice counselors there. I guess every situation is different, because I had an awful “counselor” who amongst other things, threatened to contact the dean of my school and told me he could have me kicked out of school permanently. This after my roommate had just tried to kill herself and I found her after she overdosed thinking she could be dead. The experience left a bad taste in my mouth and I certainly would be scared to contact them again.
I’ve had hit and miss with some of the counseling services offered at NYU – some experiences have left me not wanting to seek help and others rendering me thankful. It comes down really to who you get, which is quite a shame especially since when dealing with something as fragile a state as this (I can’t find a better way to phrase it).
That said, instead of simply advising of our terrible experiences, we ought to call more so for change and speak up. I’ve done so and have seen CBH try to rectify some of the wrongs by implementing new strategies. They can only improve, if we tell them what is wrong – they do take cases of mistreatment quite seriously from my experience.
Who did you contact that was helpful? I contacted Zoe Ragozeous a year ago – she is director of the program and never responded to my email. I assume she is quite busy so I didn’t contact her again. At this point I don’t care, but I would be wary of future contact with these people. I don’t think they have student’s bests interests or well-being at heart.
My heartfelt sympathies to the student’s family, friends and classmates.
I cannot emphasize this enough though – the C&BH services are not on your side. They are there to assess how much of a risk/liability you are to the university and they will manage you accordingly. If they detect even a smidgeon of a possibility that you may possibly be depressed or suicidal in the slightest, they will force you to take medical leave and they will boot you off campus.
This is NYU’s ‘policy’ towards students who are depressed/feeling suicidal – they shut them up by shutting them out. Distance them as much as possible, for as long as possible, from NYU.
How do I know? Because I am currently experiencing it. Five months ago I sought ‘help’ from the C&BH services and within 2 weeks I found myself on forced medical leave. I was only given 4 hours to clear out of my dorm room and I was left, literally, on the street to fend for myself.
And Sarah is right – they will contact the Dean of your school, so it ends up being an administrative decision as to how long you get put on leave. I’ve still got another five months to go, so despite being medically cleared by my doctor to return to my studies, I cannot because of some administrative, not medical, decision.
I for one wish I had never set foot in CBH.
Saying that the Wellness center is “a waste of time” is only perpetuating a sense of helplessness that is dangerous at a time such as this…in the wake of someone feeling SO hopeless that they end their lives.
Anyone who feels compelled to reach out and speak out for help SHOULD. Don’t let one person’s bad experience sway you, and if you had a bad experience, do more than send one email. GET IN 726 Broadway, go to the third floor and let yourself be heard.
@Ellis – 3 students so far have commented telling of terrible experiences with the NYU Wellness Center. Do you think all 3 of us are lying? And no I don’t plan to contact them again, because last time I contacted them they harassed me and attempted to have me kicked out of school for no reason in case you missed that point.
Don’t think for a second that NYU gives a shit that our students keep dying. Like Holly said, they will boot you out and have you on the streets within hours – what a great way to help a troubled person! I would hate to see another person experience what I saw happened to my ex-roommate or what Holly and I experienced.
I think some of the comments have left a real misimpression.
NYU is an academic community, and students come here in pursuit of their
studies; that is our essence. The University has an extensive system to
support students’ health and mental health in order to allow them to be
academically successful even if they have health or mental health
problems. For the vast majority of students, this works well, because
whatever health or mental health issues they have, they remain secondary
to their main focus: their studies.
Occasionally, however, a student’s health or mental health issues become
the primary concern and eclipse his or her pursuit of his or her degree.
When that happens, and it is not often, continuing to be at college or
university is not the right course. Instead, these students need to resolve the
medical issues first so that focus can then once again be on academics.
Involuntary medical leaves are very rare. Maybe the numbers will make the
point: NYU has 40,000 students and its counseling service conducts over 40,000 clinical sessions per year with students; however, there are no more
than a handful of involuntary medical leaves each year at NYU.
I appreciate that not everyone is satisfied with his or her counseling
experience; good as we are, I am sure we can do better. And I would never
dream of suggesting that anyone’s personal experience is anything other
than what he or she portrayed.
However, what does concern me are the comments that actively discourage fellow students from seeking the help of the University’s professional counselors when they need it: such advice risks students’ safety and does a real disservice to the NYU community.
Zoe Ragouzeos, PhD, LCSW
Director, Counseling and Wellness Services
Student Health Center
New York University
@ Sarah:
Emails are read and dealt with accordingly, from my understanding, and are sent to appropriate persons who will launch an investigation if need be. It is unfortunate that you did not receive a reply of sorts; that said, you should not drop the matter if you find it to have done you such wrong.
My experiences, as I have mentioned, varied. No system is perfect; Harvard has been under incredible scrutiny for their mental health services, as I read and hear from friends that had crises and in need of dire intervention. I do not feel that anyone should dissuade any person from seeking help when needed, which I realize is not what any of you have said. But we have to realize that the Wellness Center is the easiest and most accessible point of contact, and by discouraging students from that service, what else do they have? Reaching out for support is difficult – we should be finding ways to improve it if we are truly that dissatisfied.
What I failed to assert in my previous statement was that the “good” counselors and psychiatrists most certainly outweighed the “bad.” Those many positive instances, whether they be through nurse practitioners, administration, interns at CBH, or general counselors, have done a lot more for me than if I had “gone it alone.”
Dr. Ragouzeos’ comments highlight a critical issue with the wellness services: rather than addressing these awful accusations that people are bringing against her program, she is concerned with saving face. Dr. Ragouzeos, doesn’t it concern you that a student is saying one of your employees behaved in such a horrible manner and harassed her? Your comments seem to only care about the reputation of your department. That’s what if feel when I go to the health center, that you all think of us liabilities rather than people in need of help. You don’t really care that we are hurting and that you all might be part of the problem, as long as our blood isn’t on your hands and your institution doesn’t look bad. Why should we trust in your department’s help when we know that if we’re too sick or too honest about how we feel, we are at risk of being booted from our school and home? Even a few involuntary leaves concerns me because those were a few students, a few troubled young people, who came to you for help and were removed from school for it.
The health center is beyond amazing. I met with three different counselors, and found each one to be personable, understanding, respectful, and extremely helpful. IMHO, the NYU counselors are of a much higher quality than the private practice therapists I sampled throughout the city. I recommended the service to close friends, and they found the same comfort and compassion in other counselors. If you feel at all stuck or lost, I encourage you to give their services a definite effort. Attend each of your ten sessions, be on time, and listen in a manner that lets you change your actions. I learned simple truths that are not at all easy to put into action, but have changed my life so much for the better. Some people will find a way to have a poor experience regardless of the actual environment, and don’t base your opinion on another’s vehement criticisms. I also found Dr. Ragouzeos’s comment to be highly appropriate, and my guess would be that when the handful of involuntary medical leaves began to personally improve, they looked back on their break from NYU as necessary and positive for their own well-being.
I don’t normally post comments anywhere, but I felt compelled to counteract the extreme negativity and attacks occurring in this discussion. If suicide is a potential issue, the health center is a great starting point, but they will likely have to collaborate with even more experienced and qualified professionals to make sure you get all the help you need. It would be incredibly irresponsible for any counselor to trust that an hour of therapy once a week is enough to convince you that life is worth living, and spewing anger all over nyu local doesn’t seem an accurate response to their protocol, or helpful to those with milder issues. Taking care of yourself can’t always be easy, and sometimes you have to trust others, even if you don’t like what they’re saying. Wishing excellent NYU health experiences to all those who find themselves at 726 Broadway : )
There was actually an article in Psychology Today a few years ago about how NYU forces students with psychological issues to drop out of school by giving them an ultimatum between a 1 semester “voluntary” leave versus 1 year forced leave: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/the-new-college-dropout
Don’t think for a minute that NYU cares at all for the welfare of our students. NYU only cares money and troubled students are viewed as potential lawsuits to be exterminated. Dr.Ragouzeos’s dismissive comment doesn’t surprise me, as she is typical of the so-called “wellness” services she represents. Disgusting how things work here.