How much were these groups paid to sign a letter that pretty clearly got drafted up by a public relations flunky?

Check out my website @ http://www.youaretheolsentwins.com

This is crap. Any person involved with the budgeting of college clubs knows that the school controls all/any funding. These clubs were, more than likely, given no choice.

Whatever Owen. I think this was the right move. Nicely points out what the general and ‘aware’ student body feels is relevant, holds all parties responsible, and focuses on a common and clear understanding of the events of the past few days.

Very nice.

I agree that the demands were a bit disjointed, but remain a firm believer that you can’t use the master’s tools to take apart the master’s house.

NYU’s financial practices are unethical to say the least, and have been for a long time; following the “avenues” established by the university for student advocacy will yield nothing.

Is TBNYU faultless? Of course not. But at least they took a stand and threw a real spotlight on the problems.

Basically no one supports TBNYU.

You guys are in your own little world, and I was happy to see the rest of the occupants take their Academic dismissal at around 2:30 today.

Fools in Solidarity, keep banging your drums out of sync.

This sums up my views on the issue far more articulately than I could (as I get angry too quickly and my arguments get lost in a sea of “fucks”).

@ Alex and Owen: not everything is a conspiracy by the administration. Regardless of where their funding comes from, is it THAT hard to believe that most feel this way regardless of silly things like party affiliation? Besides, if it was a matter of funding alone, where are all the other clubs falling in line with the administration? After all, there are other political groups at NYU that didn’t sign this. Is their funding now in jeopardy? In the words of Christian Bale: “THINK for one fucking second”.

Congratulations to TBNYU! They achieved their goal and solidarity has been reached!

Of course, it’s solidarity against them…but who’s nitpicking?

Seriously, great job getting Republicans and Democrats together again. This is the first joint resolution between the two parties in at least 3 years.

Oh and by the way, Alex, I , along with ALL of the (facebook) members of SOFA, received a Facebook message this morning with this information and their intention of sending it to the Administration. And, as you have noted yourself, the most important political groups on campus have responded accordingly with their support.

That was a long-winded way of saying: you don’t know what you’re talking about, so drop it.

Perfectly stated — voices of reason. There’s too little of that in situations like this, but I’m glad it’s coming from a diverse bunch of student groups.

i support this letter as a member of a few of these groups and know that it is not some PR stunt but rather an attempt to validate some of the ideas but not the methods of TBNYU. some of us want change but want to do it the right way–and don’t want out support of certain policy changes to be negatively affected by TBNYU’s actions.

No, I think (hope) it’s more than that. Budget disclosure is reasonable and groups like STAND have taken it up before, in their case for the sake of Darfur divestment. This is also a plea for the university to not associate that issue with this protest in the future.

@ Sophia and Pat
If what you say is true, I am saddened. Apparently the clubs of NYU have no back bone and conform to every wish of the University. And I am glad that your organizations have chosen facebook to get a general consensus of their members, good to see that $50,000 you spend a year is going to some really awesome programs. Keep using that facebook; I mean middle and high school are.

Are there any students left alive in Gaza to receive fellowships? When you force a population into a ghetto and launch air strikes against them, as well as restrict their food and water, it reduces that population (see ‘The Pianist’). And you can count on the Republicrats to pass a resolution congratulating the Israelis on their good aim and maim. Kids, the phosphorus show is here! What is so urgent about ethnic cleansing? Why can’t TBNYU just send a polite letter to the Israeli Air Force?

Oh and all another note, at the time, the majority said Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., was wrong.
Just saying.

@ Alex C. Knapp

You do know that the entire TBNYU protest was organized through Facebook, right?

No, of course you don’t, because as evidenced previously, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Quit blindly ignoring all the criticism your cause has received and start taking it like a man. You want democracy, and when people other than you voice their opinions, you dismiss them with conspiracy bullshit and insults.

Alex, how DARE you compare what TBNYU! is doing to what Dr. King was doing!

p.s. Just because the majority opposes something, doesn’t mean that it is right. Remember how was all voted and elected President Obama?

I wouldn’t put it past NYU to threaten to cut funding to clubs, although I think it’s pretty unlikely. From everything I’ve been reading or hearing about, and everyone I’ve been talking to about this, it seems pretty believable that such a large and diverse group of student organizations would come out against TBNYU. It seems like the consensus is that TBNYU has some good ideas, but they’ve gone about it in completely the wrong way, so it’s not a surprise that some students see the protest as a negative thing, possibly even counter-productive.

@ Alex
Dr. King was standing up for the rights of people that were wrongly and unjustly taken away and abandoned by law. That’s real injustice. TBNYU wants a piece of the action for budget information of a private institution. That’s not injustice, and doesn’t justify their actions.

I second Julianna’s comment

and “lol” to Matt’s comment. Duh, guys? TBNYU is ALL about facebook and twitter

@ Alex

“Keep using that facebook; I mean middle and high school are.”

Sorry we’re not cool enough to use tumblr to talk about our drug problems like you do.

Just to clarify and I realized this would happen right after I posted:
Although I agree with TBNYU (for the most part), in NO WAY AT ALL, was I comparing there beliefs or reasoning to that of MLK. No! Not. at. all. I am comparing the responses that MLK recieved to that of which TBNYU recieved. They are very much a like.
Sorry for the confusion

These pricks are giving in to the system. TAKE BACK NYU did hte right thing, these pussys need to learn from them. ALl talk but no action, finally someone stepped up and got us all talking about the issues with NYU’s lack of honesty and commitment to US, the students who work our asses of to be here, both academically and monetarily.

Oh Bob, that was cute! You used my personal blog to attack me, after I used the fact that NYU uses facebook to contact club members, because they are so much a like!

@ Jack

anarchist, please. give me a break, already. I happen to appreciate that there is a “system” that has responsible, organised, and intelligent groups that are willing to be clear about what people want. I don’t know what you want… TBNYU didn’t do any serious talking this time around, so I’m not quite sure what you’re referencing.

The administration has done plenty of other things that we could be focusing on instead of criticizing the most responsible groups on campus.

Even their own are condemning the actions! Students of Color and Allies is listed as a group belonging to TBNYU: http://takebacknyu.com/home/

Just more evidence that they truly do not represent the views of the students, and are thus undemocratic and inappropriate in their actions.

Republicans and Democrats lecture TBNYU on how best to create radical change. Ah, nothing like the sweet smell of concern trolling in the morning.

Ha-hah! Absolutely hilarious.

“Many NYU students support budget disclosure, financial aid reform, greater sensitivity to student concerns, and increased openness and transparency.”

So lets all ask nicely really hard for four or five years a piece and maybe someday something might happen but whatever we’re not sure can you stamp this five times and file it under change-we’re-scared-of.

There have been so many individuals posting anonymously on the internet about how the coalition Take Back NYU! is a minority voice, and here we have a letter signed by six groups who agree with the concerns raised by the occupation, but disagree with direct tactics.

So who the hell are these disorganized internet whiners who are disengaged, disinterested and obviously disillusioned about how things work? You disagree because you don’t care if the school profits from imperialism or raises tuition. Not because you’re for these things. (Yeah, I know. Off the cuff you probably are. Keep it to yourself.)

So if you’re just a status quo apathetic nobody and you don’t understand why people take action and stand against things you were oblivious to last weekend, you are an IRRELEVANT voice.

Until next time, solidarity with the occupation.

@ Alex Knapp

Who cares what contact methods the groups are using? isn’t the substance supposed to be more important than the medium? You’re kind of missing the point here. What’s wrong with a little solidarity? Oh, right, sometimes it just points out how fucking WRONG you are.

If those groups supported many of the claims, they should realize that the only way to make any headway with the administration is through unity. Even if they didn’t agree with TBNYU’s tactics, they should have discussed that privately, and not publicly criticized their fellow students.

@jake

Unity is important, but distancing yourself from the uncooperative reactionary fringe is probably even more important. Here they are demonstrating unity, and presenting it in a much more reasonable way. This is emphasized even further simply by coming just after amateur hour at the kimmel center.

this is unfortunate. If these organizations agreed that TBNYU had raised legitimate concerns they should have written a letter of solidarity and support, not raised tactical disagreements.

This kind of divisive factionalism among progressives is all too common these days. Its like the house and the field slaves…”yes massah them some bad activists”

hope the college democrats like the extra crubs they are getting off the cake being denied everybody.

@ PAt : agreed.

and I should correct myself: The Facebook message was sent yesterday evening, not this morning, but still, it was sent.

I’m a student at the University of Iowa and I just want to say that alot of student-activists here support and are inspired by Take Back NYU. I agree with other people who have posted saying that if these other groups were truly progressive they would have shown solidarity with their fellow student activists instead of engaging in this kind of armchair quarterbacking. It is unfortunate that this kind of latte liberal elitism exists. The authors of this letter come off to me as smug and self-righteous and should try getting their hands dirty once in awhile and agitate for real social change.

Social change in this country only happens with direct actions. Electing Obama hasn’t and won’t change anything. Only the people through strikes, sit-ins, occupations, blockades, and mass street demonstrations can force social change. Remember what the French slogan raised in 1968: Be reasonable: Demand
the impossible.

I, for one, am glad this letter was put out. It definitely describes the way I feel, and I’m pretty sure that a lot of other NYU students also feel this way.

Jennifer Smithsky, are you REALLY making a slave-civil rights liberation analogy for a bunch of fools squatting in a lunchroom for two days? You REALLY need to think about some context or proportionality to really compare CHATTEL SLAVERY to NOT SUPPORTING GAZA, WAH WAH.

You know what the response Dr. King got for standing up for minorities against white oppression? HE GOT FUCKING ASSASSINATED.
So take your privileged ignorant horseshit elsewhere. Call up Hamas and turn in your shemagh, it’s time for a reality check.

For students who care about the issues: why get your panties in a bunch over the direct action? And for students who don’t care about the issues: why get your panties in a bunch over the direct action? Let those people do what they feel is right and quit hating.

“What you eat don’t make me shit” – Jay-Z

What I think is sad is that our culture encourages us to be so fucking critical of other people instead of just letting them be and going about our life. Its this kind of celebrity culture where we try and make ourselves feel better by putting other people down. Its shameful and I think a good example of elite privilege. Go out and do your own thing and quit crying so much about other people who are out trying to get theirs.

“We’re all for transparency, for dialogue, for freedom, but any criticism (constructive or not) that you have for us will be one-sidedly dismissed and you will forever be treated like institution-loving sheep!”

@ScabsSuck

Are you fucking retarded? These morons need to be made an example of. Simply letting them be, as you so succinctly put it, is retarded because while they are doing what they believe in, they are extrapolating these views to the entire NYU community and that is simply not the case, so just “letting it be” means you condone their authority to speak for you. NOBODY has the authority to speak for me except for me, and that is something that TBNYU simply does not understand. Have you been in a fucking hole for the last three days? They’re not claiming to fight just for themselves and they never were, so your entire point is juvenile and conciliatory in only (and I mean ONLY) the most excruciating of ways. How about you go out and go about YOUR life instead of telling us that we’re all doing it wrong? Oh, right, you’re a huge fucking hypocrite.

Can these organizations which drafted this letter cite any progress or estimated time of completion for their attempting to establish NYU accountability and transparency with the administration’s permission? Or a plan? Or the intention to do so?

…

I’m also pretty amazed with this cultural failure to comprehend an occupation… In NYC of all places. These student actions are happening all over the world, with broad international support. And at least when people in London or Athens or Milan speak out against direct action by the population, they realize that they are speaking along the fascist or nationalist party lines.

Of course in America (with our #1 DEMOCRACY coffee mugs) it’s Average Joe YaDood who doesn’t care what happens beyond his limited scope of understanding who’s the brashest response to breaches of social order.

I am so embarrassed of all the NYU students with no analysis, awareness or even concern for the issues who are vocalizing opposition. I hope there are some mommies and daddies out there who are proud of their ignorant, apathetic and obnoxious little college sweethearts.

I actually completely agree with the letter.
But now, I’m more interested in learning how these clubs will react to this whole fiasco.
I think we were all given an example of how not to approach these issues and yet I think there is a common consensus that most of these issues must be addressed in some way by the administration (especially the budget). Perhaps an open forum, organized by the rest of these student organizations? I think that even if TBNYU went about it the wrong way, most students now have a greater anticipation for some answers. I don’t want to perpetuate this endless bickering that seems to surround TBNYU, I just want a level-headed discourse to at least some of the issues. Perhaps NYULocal (with their amazing break- through coverage of this confusing “protest”) can ask the leaders of these organizations what their next steps are, and how, or if, they intend to approach the administration on the girth of questions that have just been thrown into the limelight.

@ Ian

And who are you to tell us that we have no analysis or concern for the issues? I certainly don’t see why you insist on linking those who are voicing their disagreement with TBNYU!’s tactics with armchair activists or a particular Republican government employee. I’m a proud Democrat and proud of what I do for my community and to think that I know the first thing about anyone else personally is ridiculous, and I hold you to the same standard.

This is NOT JUST ABOUT the occupation!!! HELLO??? Are you even listening? This is about the poistions, demands, and escalation of TBNYU! which the majority of the student body is not in argeement with.

@ Ian

Last I heard, they were working on it.

And I would like to point out that I was there on Wednesday, and called you in an attempt to get people into the building. That was, of course, before I realized what the hell you were really doing and gave it some thought. Please don’t attempt to portray everyone who disagrees with your methodology as ignorant and apathetic. You have no fucking idea who you’re talking about.

Hey Ian, I bet there are more mommies and daddies who are fucking THRILLED to be paying for housing their child got their ass kicked out of for following through on an ill-conceived and unattainable plan.

I’m not “failing to comprehend” the occupation, I comprehend it just fine you condescending fuck. They cobbled together a list of “demands” that ranged from silly to completely contradictory (stop charging us money, but let’s give a bunch more to palestinians and their university), they had nothing to bargain with other than being a loud annoyance, and the university didn’t cave. They exercised restraint in not arresting these idiots when it was well within their legal right to do so (after they injured a security guard so bad she had to be taken out in an ambulance and destroying property of the university they claim to be looking out for).

I am pro-protests and I think that many times they are a necessity, but I’m embarrassed of people like you who simply see loud people with signs who are being a general annoyance and instantly think that their cause MUST be worth supporting without stopping to think about how ridiculous what they are asking for is. YOU, good sir, are the problem inherent in the situation because it is clear that all you want to do is thump your chest and be self-righteous.

The way the issues were presented by TBNYU via this protest was completely absurd. As much as I agree with most of the demands, I think compounding complex issues (university finances, the conflict in Gaza, and the Coca Cola human right controversy) diluted the overall rhetoric and undermined the severity of each of them. There was absolutely no scope for discourse and the whole situation became nothing but sensational news. Also, how much research went into these demands? Are they well researched or just completely arbitrary? Before trying to incite a “revolution” it may be smart to establish some credibility, especially amongst your fellow students that you claim to be representing. This was a temper tantrum. it wasnt going to gain any respect, and the group gave the administration no reason to take them seriously.

@Shivani

Fuck. Yes. *applauds*

@ those who think the University controls these clubs’ funding, which somehow indicates the administration is responsible for this letter:

You’re wrong. There’s a student committee, called the All-Square Student Budget Allocation Committee, that is in charge of allocating funds to all of the All-Square clubs on campus, including The College Democrats, The College Republicans, and Think Torch.

My point is, the University is certainly not twisting anyone’s arm to say one thing or another about the protesters’ actions. They, regardless of club affiliation, remain free to have and voice our own opinions in this non-disruptive manner, just as you all have done here on the comments section of this site. These students who have chosen to compile this letter and sign it under their clubs’ names have done so independently of the University or of any funding body.

Saying that the protesters went a little overboard with their long-list of demands is perhaps the only credible critique anyone here has given. But that needs to be presented in a constructive, not a destructive way. What’s sad is that so many students who seem to be so upset at TakeBackNYU are admitting that they agree in theory with the need for accountability and transparency of their university, yet are letting themselves be divided over tactical debates and concerns.

Debates over tactics are important, but what is also important is solidarity with your fellow students. The powers-that-be are exploiting all of us, whether we are conservative, moderate, liberal, libertarian, or radicals. As such we need to have unity with each other even if we disagree over tactics. There’s a time and a place for those kinds of debates and discussions, but they should also be undertaken using a methodology of respect for one another. I also think the protesters deserve credit just for putting themselves out there and risking their student status. If more people truly stood up for what they believe in, this world would be a better place. All too often people are content to comment from the sidelines without actually getting in the huddle and playing a few innings.

I have no problem with protesting, however infringing on the rights of the innocent crosses the line. the TBNYU students should have chosen somewhere else to protest not the cafateria where other students eat. they deserve what they got and then some. and the non NYU students had no buisness being there what so ever

its discouraging to see other student groups publicly criticizing the student activists. they deserve credit and support. we all dont have to agree on everything to work together for what’s right in the world. let the small stuff go and stay focused on the goal. people that are so upset at the protesters should take their anger to the administration where it belongs. pretty soon we are all going to be paying back our student loan money and there aren’t even any jobs out there for us right now. on top of that, we are all complicit in things like the cluster bombing and use of white phosphorous in the gaza strip. while we are here debating tactics, people are suffering and dying because of the policies of our own government. if our colleges are complicit we are honor-bound to speak up and make our voices heard.

Viva la fucking revolution! We’re all in this together, our school, our rights!

I throw my support behind this letter. It’s good to see an act of unity after such a divisive charade thrown by TBNYU. I was a bit surprised to find myself alongside College Republicans across the street from Kimmel, but I wasn’t going to let a fringe group act like they represent me. I knew full well what they wanted, and just from reading their list of demands I knew I had to fight back. Their actions have not only distorted the causes they fought for, but put a blemish on the university. Even with the low standard that TBNYU set for themselves from the beginning, they couldn’t keep the promises they made to not destroy school property or cause any physical harm. I would like to see many of the issues at hand be addressed through reasonable, even forceful, debate. I just ask the administration to see the occupation as the actions of very few.

Let’s take back our image, our dignity, and our legitimacy.

throw my support behind this letter. It’s good to see an act of unity after such a divisive charade thrown by TBNYU. I was a bit surprised to find myself alongside College Republicans across the street from Kimmel, but I wasn’t going to let a fringe group act like they represent me. I knew full well what they wanted, and just from reading their list of demands I knew I had to fight back. Their actions have not only distorted the causes they fought for, but put a blemish on the university. Even with the low standard that TBNYU set for themselves from the beginning, they couldn’t keep the promises they made to not destroy school property or cause any physical harm. I would like to see many of the issues at hand be addressed through reasonable, even forceful, debate. I just ask the administration to see the occupation as the actions of very few.

Let’s take back our image, our dignity, and our legitimacy.

Todd – so you want the issues Take Back NYU raised to be addressed? What is your plan for getting the administration to act on them and your timeline for implementing your agenda?

Pat McGroin,

After much thoughtful consideration, I can only come to the conclusion that your constant, irrational philipics are nothing more than celebrity ego-boosting attempts. So you think that none of these demands were worthwhile, eh? Tell me, then, why should NYU not reveal its budget? Before you go about saying all demands were worthless, you should engage in real dialogue and explain why they are (and I mean real dialogue: go through each and every demand and explain why it is silly or contradictory). It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you simply state an opinion as fact and run with it to the thunderous applause of your dim witted peers [and as a qualifier to this last group, I mean to include all those who take issue with the actions TBNYU! instigated who do not have the cojones to take a stand on the issues but rather, like Pat, feel that mere negation has some worth. Quit whining and demonstrated why TBNYU! is wrong, like some others have, if you want to be taken seriously].

For my part, I feel TBNYU! has accomplished some good things, even if their occupation failed. The student dialogue (once you filter out the McGroins) is finally coming about, and furthermore they showed just how resistant this administration is to giving students any real (i.e. enforceable) voice in how the the school is run. Remember, we are the consumers of education here: should we not have a say in the product we’re getting?

wow, bipartisanship!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRA2Qt76p7Y go to 1:52 lol

Tyler – I haven’t really given that much thought. I suppose I have done nothing to further those issues, at least to date. However, I do take comfort in the fact that I have, at least, not weakened the advancement of said causes. Sadly and regrettably, TBNYU has. So even if I never do a damn thing, I’ll still be ahead of TBNYU. I hope to find the time to do something, though. I mean, someone has to at least balance out the negative effects that this childish protest has unleashed.

What have you done, Tyler? Do you have a timeline? Was your timeline the one that ended yesterday afternoon with complete failure?

P.S. Sorry about the double post above. I was on a bus with a shoddy connection and I wasn’t sure if it had gone through.

somehow it is so incredibly difficult for you to realize that these are the views and demands of the minority, and not in any way represent the views of the students of this university. This letter represents the views of these clubs which contain large amounts of students, much larger than those who both took over kimmel and those who showed up to support it.

In past articles, Duncan Meisel has said that many TBNYU! critics are “quibblers” who do not care enough about the issues to create a viable alternative to TBNYU!’s methodology. If this is an honest attempt at addressing the issues, I by all means welcome it. This is a chance for all those who disagree with TBNYU!’s tactics to jump aboard and put their money where their mouth is.

Prediction: The students with the “I don’t agree with their methods, but support disclosure and transparency” syndrome will remain wholly apathetic as they have in the past when TBNYU! (with its coalition including not-so-radical student groups including Amnesty International and Earth Matters) has attempted to garner support for these issues. There will be no continued dialogue concerning this letter, and is merely a public statement to satisfy the students with the aforementioned “syndrome” – those who claim to care about these issues. Also, doubts as to whether the administration will even READ this letter, and most definitely will not make a public response to it.

So please, all of you NYU students who claim to care about the financial demands, prove me wrong! Unite your voices and tell the adminstration how the students feel about budget disclosure, transparency, and responsible investing. If you feel the avenues that TBNYU! took were inappropriate, use any and all of the avenues that you feel ARE appropriate to make them hear these concerns. Because so far, few people have done anything about these issues besides TBNYU!, and right now I am calling your bluff.

Fun fact: Over the past two years, TBNYU! has repeatedly reached out to ALL of NYU’s official clubs. We’re a coalition, and a coalition isn’t much fun without lots of different groups’ support and ideas. We extended personalized invitations to every one of the clubs who signed the above letter, asking for their feedback and with the exception of SOCA, not ONE of them expressed any interest in working on this campaign or any support for increasing transparency and democracy at NYU.

But club leaderships change, and maybe the kids who wrote this letter are really in favor of budget/endowment disclosure and eager to do something about it. If so, hopefully one of the successes of this occupation is that it pushes them to work for student empowerment themselves, and not to leave it to someone else whose tactics they may not agree with, or better yet, to join the 20+ clubs that comprise TBNYU!’s coalition and help construct a strategy they think would be more effective.

As publisher of Think Torch at NYU, and a standing officer of the Political Union at NYU, I want to indicate for the record that these two groups have reached no consensus toward a stance on TBNYU!’s occupation.

In the case of Think Torch, the organization was added to this letter through the actions of one officer alone, and his position does not necessarily represent the position of the journal.

In the case of the Political Union, the organization was added to this letter through the actions of the representatives from the College Republicans and College Democrats, and their position does not necessarily represent the position of the Political Union as a whole.

I request that until official consensus has been agreed upon and released from the officers of these two organizations that they not be recognized with this letter.