I demand that all your demands be met.

[...] – New thread. Go here. [...]

all the taiwanese? or maybe only 13 of them?

I demand transparency from TBNYU!

nice, i’ll take all the leftover!

Thank you Charlie for you incredibly entertaining (and informative!) live blogging of the situation. Hopefully they let you back into the “inner sanctum”

DEMAND #7:
Allow those two cute topless chicks to protest in front of Kimmel again.

DEMAND #7 amendment:
Transparency in clothing is an acceptable alternative to transparency in NYU’s budget.

There’s a bit of irony that a group so focused on transparency won’t let you anywhere near them.

Just saying.

Lol. Thanks for hanging in there despite the many, many hardships.

Kimmel Takeover scoreboard:

NYU -30 for bad press at admissions time

TBNYU! -100 for alienating everyone with a meal plan and/or a stake in Bobst exclusivity

NYULocal +1000 for increasing its readership about a hundredfold and for Charlie Eisenhood’s recent Pulitzer nomination for embedded journalism.

Charlie Chappy and I made it on the CBS news talking about this shit. way cool. good job, keep it up.

How big is that place? I got the impression that it’s pretty small, but the latest picture makes it look a little bigger.

I don’t agree with what TNBYU! is trying to accomplish, but they should realize that inside student coverage, above all else, is what really serves to get their point across/get their voice heard, and helps rally people to the cause.

Not that that’s necessary. At all.

But why are they so anti-your-journalism?

I think it’s a bad sign when a student protest can be described as comedy gold.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/02/nyu_the_protests_get_serious.html

I suggest they amend their demands to the following:

1. Free Public Access to all NYU buildings, notably classrooms and dorm rooms.

2. 10% of tuition money should be sent to Islamic community centers in the Swat region of Pakistan and nearby tribal regions of Afghanistan to combat Western cultural hegemony and imperialism

3. All students must sign a declaration of solidarity with the democratically elected government of Gaza, Hamas

4. The University should repeal it’s no-smoking policy for all University buildings, notably class rooms, but only in so far as said smoking occurs from tobacco grown locally by anarcho-syndicalist collectives

5. All dogs and cats should be freed from ownership

6. The University must amend its policy, including compliance with the aforementioned demands, whenever another group of students, whether affiliated with NYU or not, is able to physically “occupy” campus space

Eh, they cant throw you out just refuse to leave, what are they going to do about it?

@ Brett – HAHAHAHAHA! #1 rocks. Party in my room for all the homeless people near or around Water Street!

@ Brett 19:38, were you handing out flyers with those amended demands earlier? I picked one up and had a good laugh

Did they eat all the food in Kimmel? And they want fair? Well that’s not fair to me, my tuition helped pay for that shit.

I appreciate your coverage, it’s by far the best I’ve seen, and it’s letting me follow from CA (maybe the whole world is watching, but a lot of people sure are). However, having been in organizing situations like that, I can understand their apprehensiveness to include you in discussions. As you’ve noted, many of them, at least the core organizers, are facing expulsion, so I’m sure they want to be very delicate about what is made public. And their seat at the table with NYU admins depends on the leverage they can exert through this occupation and the rallies outside, and they don’t want to give away their strategy ahead of time. It’s not a matter of transparency at all, it’s a matter of them protecting themselves. Have a little faith, I know a couple people there and they’re generally quite reasonable, I’m sure they’re trying to balance their own safety with your ability to report as best they can. And to be completely honest, your “demands” and criticisms don’t do anything to legitimize yourself as a reporter, add anything to your story, or help your case with TBNYU. Even so, keep on keeping on, all in all you’ve been invaluable. Thanks!

Hahaha, great article Charlie. Glad you think this protest is ridiculous too.

[...] now it looks like TBNYU isn’t too happy with Charlie’s coverage, and have decided to kick him out of the group meetings. Remember that two of the most oft-used words in these folks’ vocabulary are, [...]

“But why are they so anti-your-journalism?”

Probably because they know it makes them look like buffoons to 90% of the people who read it

Re: calling parents. That may be a violation of federal law and is almost certainly a violation of NYU policy.

http://www.nyu.edu/apr/ferpa.htm#disclosure

Try mentioning to the ‘leaders’ that maybe a neutral mediator might help them get past this impass with the administration.
Also try to mention this- when negotiating, it is important to not only consider you own interests, but also the interests of the other side.
when considering your interests (or demands in this case), ask yourself this, is there a realistic chance that the other side will accept it?
I can post more tips if wanted…

I’m studying on the 4th floor of Bobst and I must say, it looks damn miserable in there. I count 4 people just… pacing. Far cry from dance parties yesterday. Perhaps protesting is not as glamorous as they thought it would be?

how long will the protestors stay in there? assuming that nyu is not going to negotiate…

Charlie– your coverage of the circus has been excellent.

Brett– your comment was epic.

Keep up the good work, everyone.

@ Eric, where is the violation? Presumably these students are dependents of their parents. Also, it’s not clear that what would be disclosed is from an “educational record” of the student.

John Sexton makes 750k per year!!!!!!!! THAT’S RIDICULOUS! Add “Pay John Sexton a reasonable salary” to the list of demands. And what about housing? Excuse me but has anyone else noticed how much profit housing makes off of overcharging students?

Just wondering, Mr. Eisenhood, about how many people are still inside? I’d heard somewhere in the mid-thirties. I ask only because I feel that if the numbers drop into the twenties for some reason or another, the occupiers become highly susceptible to having the sit-in broken up, but as long as there are, say, fifty or more people inside they could probably stay for as long as they want.

Watch out. You keep blogging and they might barricade you in with chairs and throw a gaza themed dance party

TBNYU is so big on transparency — shouldn’t they be fine with everyone knowing exactly what they’re doing?

@Brett: See section XI, which indicates the limited circumstances in which NYU can release the info.

And basically, anything that’s written down about a student becomes a record.

As an applicant to the class of 13 I’m psyched by this show of activism but concerned with how it’s been executed. Some of the demands are absurd. For example, it would be unreasonable to expect NYU to create and distribute 13 scholarships for next year. Additionally, why didn’t everyone just bring in a back pack full of food? Keep up the good coverage though, I’ve been slapping my f5 like nobody’s business.

TBNYU = FAIL!

Majority of students don’t agree with most of TBNYU’s “demands”. Maybe if they had stuck to one cause (such as budget disclosure) they would have had more supporters.

They do appear to be very hypocritical. Fighting for transparency, yet they are demanding you to stop blogging.

Any word on what’s going to happen if they stay past 1 AM? I hope NYU does start arresting/expelling.

Keep up the great news coverage Charlie!

The kids sticking around are seriously brave. Come rally outside at midnight!

They shouldn’t be worried about expulsion/arrest, not for anything they’ve done so far. I highly doubt the same people who brought them free supper would discipline them seriously. The question is whether they are willing to swallow their pride and end this farce, or if they’re stupid enough to keep this up until they find themselves in actual trouble.

Only a matter of time before these “protesters” give up the ghost and do the walk of shame. Good job standing up for your demands you tools. Epic fail.

@Eric:

What makes you think the administrators are disclosing anything that would be considered part of the “educational record”? I would assume they are simply calling the parents to notify them that their children have unlawfully barricaded themselves inside campus property.

Eric, I disagree. It sounds like that refers to transcripts. And I bet that nothing about this has been “written down” by the administration yet, at least to the extent that it would violate FERPA.

@Jack: The Department of Education (which regulates FERPA) defines educational records as: ” records that are directly related to a “student” and maintained by an “educational agency or institution” or by a party acting for the agency or institution. (The term “student” excludes individuals who have not been in attendance at the agency or institution.)” So basically, if NYU made a list of students there, that would be a record.

Jack/Eric, I think Eric is right (I had a bit of dyslexia before and didn’t read section XI). There would not be an exclusion for reporting drug/drinking crimes if “records” only referred to transcripts. It’s too bad, since I would think that forcibly excluding others from university property is a worse crime than underage drinking.

Keep blogging, nyulocal! nothing will be achieved as long as TBNYU continues to alienate their support base with this ridiculous laundry list of demands…

This seems like a worthy cause, just not well planned enough. Dance party also hurts their credibility, but topless girls got it back. 33 people? what percentage of the student body is that? In any case, as an alum, I would like to see some of their demands met, like disclosure of budgets. John Sexton gets paid a quarter mill!!! Is he worth that??
I don’t think that the public should be allowed access to the library, but Alumni should, if they are not all ready.

pretty good journalism, you sound like you would be a good celebrity journalist.

Feel free to pass this along:
7 Elements of Negotiation
(from the Harvard Program on Negotiation)
1. Alternatives
what are they? if no demands are met, then what?
2. Interests
do the demands represent Positions or Interests? It is easier to ‘expand the pie’ when you negitiate on interests, not positions
3. Options
Realizing that it is rare that one sides interests are ever met 100%, what are other options? what is most important? list demands in order of importance.
4. Legitimacy
How would a neutral person look at your demands? What are the norms or standards?
5.Commitments
If any agreement is reached, is it practical? easily understood and verifiable?
6. Communication
is there effective two way communication?
7.Relationship
is there one between the two groups after this? is it important to you?
http://www.pon.harvard.edu/hnp/theory/tools/7elements.shtml

Of course, I could be wrong (it happens on occasion ) But even so, if it gets them to go away that would be kinda nice

Charlie, you mentioned earlier that a significant number of guards had taken up some sort of position. As the numbers get small, what do you forsee as the way in which this will end? Could you predict the use of force, our would they simply wait for people to give up?

If the #’s are going downhill is the midnight protest still on?

Also: Big props to you, Charlie. I’m checking back here more than Facebook and Perez combined.

I wonder if it will continue through tomorrow. If it does, I wonder if since it is Friday and very few students have class on Friday if there will be more people there to hang out/support or no one around at all.

Time to go home. You have garnered the attention of the media- the most influential component of any local or national controversy.

Eric, I can’t say for sure, it’s just how I interpreted FERPA. It would make a really good bluff though…

And I want to say thanks to Charlie for all the updates. This has clearly been the best source for this story, by far.

I think that these guize are really kewl. You guizs are crazy for not supporting them. Just because you guys all love George Bush doesn’t mean you are right. Seriously guize. Wize Up!

while we are waiting for next post you can check out some of my artwork if you like, just click on my name

IMO, most of them will straggle out by 1AM. A few folks will try to stay, and will get dragged out by NYPD. I doubt any charges. The main question will be if TBNYU(!) will try to claim victory.

that wsu guy sounds bitter the you were there first.

im not really sure how serious the nyu community is even taking this…when i was outside kimmel today, a bunch of different groups started handing out flyers advertising their groups–i think we left with 4 flyers that had nothing to do with the protest.

i was waiting for TearItUp! to come and hand out flyers for the game this weekend.

Didn’t see a large amount of guards in the building rear when I passed by a half hour ago. One posted at each door pretty much. There was a ConEd truck?! Hope you have a fully charged battery…

STOP HATING ON THESE HEROES! NYU DOESN’T NEED HATERS! AMIRITE?!

This is great stuff, Charlie. Even out here in New Jersey, with no ties to NYU, I’m finding it fascinating reading. Thanks so much!

I can’t believe no one has mentioned the Student Protest Amnesty Relief Clause (SPARC) of the NYU Bill of Student Rights. SPARC states that any student or group of students engaged in non-violent protest CANNOT be suspended or expelled for that activity, even if it is disruptive, as long as no one receives bodily harm. Do these kids even know their rights??

reinforcements!!!!!!!!!!! i think i would go to the rally if i could, this is exciting. Charlie you better mark yourself as press in case the swat comes in…

@Ben- source?

Google: “No results found for “Student Protest Amnesty Relief Clause”.”

Line up your lawyers now. If you head down into the tombs on a Friday you may not be out until Sunday or Monday.

@Ben Johnstern- Click on my name for a link to the SPARC.

Charlie, thanks for the updates. I’m currently at NYU in London and one of my friends from home tipped me off about the tragedy that lunch wasn’t served in Kimmel today. I’ve been following the blog through the evening and you’re doing a great job. Thanks!

As for TBNYU, I love that they’re making a stance, but c’mon guys…13 scholarships for Palestinians???? Wouldn’t that money be better served going into our nearly non-existent financial aid pool for current students? That sounds like a much more reasonable demand. Let’ stick to the real issues, such a budget disclosure and tuition reductions. And personally, I pay for the RIGHT to use NYU’s libraries. There’s no way in hell I would be okay with Bobst being open to the public, especially with the resources that NYU offers to the public. Who thought of this demand?? I want to be on whatever they were taking when they thought that one up. If TBNYU wants anyone to take them seriously, they need to get real. I think they’ll look back on this in a month and realize why it most likely turned out to be an epic fail.

Keep up the blogging!

Ben: I would also like a source.

Even if such a clause exists, TBNYU has provided plenty of cause for disciplinary action. The non-NYU students are most likely guilty of trespassing, though NYU will almost certainly not press charges against them.

edit: “There’s no way in hell I would be okay with Bobst being open to the public, especially with the resources that NYC offers to the public.” **

hey george alumni, i dig your art. cool stuff! you guys are all welcome to check out my art too in the meantime…

as for the kids on the front line…i’m not one to pick sides, but keep fighting for what you believe in.

My friend down at the Kimmel said 30 more got in! Reinforcements are good for morale, this should keep them going through the night, but add substantially to security. The Bobst demand was a misstep (alienating your colleagues is never good tactics) and the Coke demand seems a little tepid next to the Gaza demand.

Regarding the latter, there have been Gaza related occupations all across Europe for months, so if you’ve been reading newspapers you should have picked up the import of that demand. Regardless of the missteps, it is good to see students becoming active again. It sounds like TBNYU has, if nothing else, raised some serious issues that otherwise apathetic people are now forced to debate about. KUDOS!

An interesting post from WSN:

http://blogs.nyunews.com/2009/02/19/breaking-more-protesters-trying-to-break-into-dining-hall/

So now we have a few things going on. One, a guard’s arm was broken. That’s bad. Second, I’m surprised that Public Safety actively tried to prevent them from entering. Physical force by private security folks is unusual in my experience. In any case, there were enough cops there that could have taken care of it. So it seems kinda weird to me. In any case, shame on whoever broke the guard’s arm.

lol hey connie

Even if this SPARC thing does exist, TBNYU may have exempted themselves from it when they decided to damage property for the noble cause of…cigarette breaks!

I love how their own website promotes the fact that they have violated their “no violence” pledge. Pushing people is a form of violence last time I checked.

I’m in Kimmel right now, along with the Local people I’m assuming. Twittering like wildfire.

“THEY’RE TAKING BOB HOSTAGE” – Guard, jokingly?

Someone’s arm was broken?! So I guess they need to revise their non-violence policy now too?

Enjoy Community College!

At this point, I’d be pissed at NYU if they give in to any of these people.

well….a guard’s arm is broken now. I forsee a use of force and strongarm policy. You don’t hurt employees breakinginto a place….you just don’t. Now they deserve to be treated as hostile.

im assuming the non-violence policy as drafted by the people inside the building, not by the people trying to break in, though i suppose they should be responsible for their constituents. however, the WSN reports that the guards were “hitting tripping and kicking” the students, so it could be that it was in self-defense.

Someone’s arm got broken? Way too far. These kids sicken me. I love how they’re superscreening all the comments on their own website to just show the solidarity ones. If you find out the name of the guard, I’d love to know.

“well….a guard’s arm is broken now. I forsee a use of force and strongarm policy.”

Badum bum, *tsch*!

how was the guard’s arm brokem?

wtf is a security guard doing getting in the way of this protest, it cant be in their contract to serve the university in this way. plus, he is probably going to get paid leave for getting hurt on the job and might even have a lawsuit on his hands

guy in the suit looks pissed

It proves how violent and out of control these degenerate protesters are if they could force through that impenetrable barrier.

btw, the university really messed up by letting reinforcements get in… it seemed they had the protestors right where they wanted them, now its on like donkey kong again,
keep it up charlie

links for youtube videos please and thank you1?!?

No broken arm.

You people can calm down now, I could sense your eagerness to see some protesters get their heads bashed.

Well there goes the non-violence statment

i hope the reinforcements brought food

We have no idea exactly HOW the injury happened at this point. The first report I saw said a guard’s arm was “hurt” and then subsequent posts referred to a “broken” arm. Why were the security guards engaging physically? I believe their protocol would probably be to call police if they felt threatened.

I NEED TO CONFESS THAT I AM IN NEED OF A SANDWICH

Charlie, better hope they brought food with them. You think they’d share with an evil journalist like you?

go protestors, whats up with the people advocating violence?

…and pot

Then again, it’s probably all vegan food.

I cannot believe that Take Back NYU! (TPNYU) has gotten me to the point of writing a something about the occupation. In this I express my own opinions and acknowledge that there are others that believe that the occupation has ‘helped’ the NYU community. However, we should all acknowledge that the occupation (if that is what people this is) was done in the wrong way and took an incorrect approach.

In the time that I have been at NYU, I have seen TPNYU as a vigilante that has no face and is hidden behind a veil of secrecy. They deface the sidewalk with their logo and have become hypocrites with their words.

I am all for voicing opinions and making grievances but they should be done through the proper channels. Taking over a student facility, one that operates for the NYU community, does not justify the actions taken by TPNYU.

At town hall meetings TPNYU is disruptive and rude to administration; they provide little justification for their requests and have ridiculed John Sexton. While he may not always be write in his actions, he is our President and represents the university. Whatever TPNYU’s mission is, Sexton should be treated with respect.

TPNYU has to realize that New York University is a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY in the Public Service. As a private university, NYU has the right to withhold any information they feel is not vital to the operations of the university. While transparency is important, NYU is essentially a business. As a business, they have the right to protect their employees and staff members. (The same way that people do not disclose their salaries to their co-workers, NYU does NOT need to disclose salary information. This is an invasion of the privacy of NYU employees.)

Continuing with the idea that NYU is a private university, TPNYU has to realize that tuition hikes are a normal occurrence. Most universities increase their tuitions based on expenditure needs, salary increases, and capital projects. NYU is continuously on the road to being known as a world-renowned university. Retention is critical to the administrators at NYU, and if they have to increase salaries to retain their top staff, then so be it. Granted that tuition hikes should be minimal, but all these expenditures have to come from somewhere, and as students at NYU we are the consumers. We must pay for the staff here at NYU and we must acknowledge that we are given more than desirable conditions on campus (Kimmel is amazing and serves great food, Stern is being renovated through alumni donations, and safety is always a top priority of administrators).

TPNYU has displaced commuter students who use the commuter lounge as a place of relaxation, they have forced officers to stay past their normal hours, and they have made a mess that in the end maintenance will be forced to clean. TPNYU complains about expenditures, but they have created thousands of dollars in expenditures that the university will have to take on as a result of their uncivil protest (overtime, cleanup, possible NYPD fees, hazard pay, etc.).

Their actions cause disruption in university operations and cause an embarrassment to many students. Tourists passing on the street laughed at how “instable” NYU seems. Parents on the school tour probably wondered if NYU was the best place to send their children. Yes the tolerance that NYU administrators have shown TPNYU thus far has shown that NYU is a university that accepts protests and anger from uncivilized groups, but they need to learn to do it in the right way. Only then will people actually listen to your demands, only then will people actually feel your cause.

I may receive a backlash for writing this, but believe me, the only reason I do so is because it gives me great pride to be an NYU student and it is sad that some students decide to take matters into their hands in an attempt to ‘represent’ us. I am the first in my family to go to a four-year university and they have never been prouder of me. I walk around campus and feel proud to be amongst the finest students in the country. People dream of coming to NYU because it is accepting, open and welcoming. I applied early decision because I knew this was where I wanted to be, I wanted to live in the city with the commotion and the activity that exists on campus. It makes me angry to hear to CUNY, New School, and other outside university students come onto our campus to protest a cause that is not their own. Please stay off our campus; you do not represent our school or our ideas.

What TPNYU did this week was unnecessary and shows just how ignorant TPNYU is. Hopefully NYU administrators keep to their word and storm the Kimmel cafeteria at 1:00 am. They should punish TPNYU and charge them for trespassing and damages. Only then will they learn that grievances are only listened to through civil manners.

The guards are within their right to use force to keep people from coming in, obviously: http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN035.20_35.20.html

correction to fourth paragraph: write = right

Loving your coverage You must be pooped.

Wow that’s a crazy video! Hey want to check out some other good youtube videos while you wait? Look at my site in the link, I always find some good ones.

id rather see cooler heads prevail, but swat is seaming like a more real possibility. It is clear that the nyu security are not trained for this stuff

[...] pm Update: Dozens of students — one source on the scene says “well over 50″ — forced their way past security into the occupied area. Two [...]

*TBNYU

No one’s advocating violence. Just wishing for an excuse to stop giving this children more credit and leeway than they deserve. And just fully expected the “surge” to disregard even further the “rules” that were set when this began in their enthusiasm to ally themselves with the event.

What was that guy throwing into the door?

Thanks, my iPhone for some reason entered TPNYU each time

@Rudy TPNYU EPIC LULZ!!!!111

You wrote that long comment on an iPhone??

Props to you for the commitment.

i wish i had an iphone

lol, it TBNYU upset me that much =P

I am convinced it’s some elaborate sort of conspiracy. John Sexton, you are too too wise!

Henry Chan: Probably throwing food. They’ve been begging for vegan food.

Where were the NYPD? As someone who worked there this morning at the theatre in the basement, I had 2 uniformed NYPD officers and an NYU guard there this morning. There was a high presence around 10am brought in and positioned. The guards are indeed not equipped for this, and have just gone through a big round of their own budget cuts to boot. I see guards I know as the ones who got pushed out of the way in this last round — amazing guys who I love dearly. I am just so angry right now.

@Brett- I think that depends if those folks were NYU students or not. Students normally have permission to go in to Kimmel, so I believe they would need to specifically revoke that permission for it to be trespass. I’m no lawyer, so don’t quote that or anything though.

@George- Yep. Not a good thing.

@Brett

” (b) Persons “licensed or privileged” to be in buildings or upon other
premises include, but are not limited to:
(i) police officers or peace officers acting in the performance of
their duties; and
(ii) security personnel or employees of nuclear powered electric
generating facilities”

are the guards peace officers or security personnel?

@Rudy: Great analysis. Appreciated your analysis. It’s interesting to hear how they have conducted themselves in other actions. From what I’ve read here, I’m not impressed. They seem completely not-together.
Considering withdrawing my application in light of this Coca Cola ban. Not sure if I could deal.

though i may just be nit-picking

Hey Rudy, maybe you can take your fancy iPhone and go back to whatever little town you came from. I know that NYU shelters their students from a lot, but you should know this has always been a radical city and ‘commotion’ refers to more than the bustle of tourists in Times Square.

I think that If they really believe in this then they will do anything.

Let them stay all day tomorrow.

Give them nothing but steak.

@ KSCHWARZ – FUCK YEAH. YOU DID IT!

Can anyone explain why Kimmel dining area? Is there a reason why this location was chosen? Why not the office of the president, or some admin office, or bobst, or a location related to the nature of some of the demands? I feel bad that these students have so much energy but seem to have alienated many of their fellow students. A lot of strategic errors which make it hard for this group to be taken seriously and garner support.

I grew up in Brooklyn and Long Island. Parents part of the regular middle class, no high class wealth here. Been a New Yorker all my life. =)

WSN update: “Two guards were injured in the break-in. An ambulance is en route to pick up a female public safety officer.”.

@Joe– Public safety are not police/peace officers (NYPD is though), but they obviously can be in buildings that they control.

@Brett

i’m not sure how you could still be unaware of this, but…

http://www.killercoke.org/crimes.htm

lol, lets not start hating here, i cans see where rudy coming from, but as someone who worked for NYU, they are definitely a business, and as a paying customer, you should have a right to know how your money is spent, man i wish these guys were more organized and had thought this through a little more. this is the most bootleg, but exciting protest

Long article from tomorrow’s NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/nyregion/20nyu.html

kimmel seems to have physically provided a good place to stage a barricade, the library would have been more apropriate in this case, but as far as physically setting up barricade kimmel would be better. Also, as you can tell from pics its right on washington sq. Good place for publicity

@Joe: thanks for the linkage, but I run Amnesty at my school so I totally know. I’m being facetious.

I don’t want to cast aspersions, I want to be very clear on this, did people rushing into Kimmel knock over and hurt gaurds? Because if so TBNYU has lost ALL ounce of sympathy. Absolutely fucking unacceptable.

Wow. When in doubt, call out someone’s hometown/cellphone…

On a lighter note, because of the advent of possible police involvement, this Jens Lekman song is more firmly implanted in my head than it has been all day:

http://tinyurl.com/2xkkya

Let’s hope someone does find true love through this process…

who is in charge of this protest? is there a definitive leadership ? Are there ranks in the leadership? names!!!?

Does anyone else feel like this is a hilarious microcosmic parody of the israel/ palestine conflict? what with border disputes, retracted treaties, faux demands and shock-and-awe publicity stunts? Q: Will the guards arm be the handful of rockets that leads to an all-out university attack on these people?

Here are several thoughts:

There’s a difference between supporting a cause and supporting how a certain group chooses to express said cause.

Do I think that some of these demands seem ridiculous and not feasible? Yes. Do I want a tuition freeze so that hikes are minimal/don’t go above the rate of inflation? Certainly. But is standing around topless, breaking down barricades, and claiming to represent a student body of 40,000 students (both undergrad and grad) in ALL of these demands the right way to go about it? Not at all.

Most students would probably support the demand about tuition, as well as more transparency and student input. But bringing in the University of Gaza? Save that for another day (or not), seriously. I’ve heard a number of references to the New School protest throughout the day, but like others have said: their concerns were of a war criminal, and their demands were limited to the school itself. Yes, NYU is a big school and has its various branches, but again, save that for another day. Make the most important, immediate demands–through slightly more appropriate measures–and save the rest, or figure out another way.

Although yes, we are the ‘consumers,’ we don’t have to stand by idly and watch as tuition arbitrarily rises. And yes, I think that more transparency would be beneficial, especially in this shitty economy and more and more people having to take loans, work more hours, etc. to get by to pay the tuition. The NYU administration needs to cut its costs to be efficient, and not claim an increase in operating costs and thus raise tuition randomly. (For example…turn down the goddamn heat in the buildings, dorms, whatever. You’d save quite a bit of money there, no?) But students also need to realize that there is a limit to this, and that hikes will be inevitable.

Of course, this whole admin working with students in coming up with ways to cut costs and save money to give out more financial aid thing is slightly utopian… I came from a private high school, where there seemed to be much wasteful spending, and since it was a private school, they didn’t need to disclose any data. And yes, some of the tuition hikes over the years were significant (and no, I’m not a trust fund baby, I’ve just been fortunate to have parents who invested money they could have invested elsewhere into my secondary school education). But yes, some changes have been made over the years, despite a somewhat resistant administration. How was it done? Not by how this is being done. But we managed to have our voices heard, and yes, we protested loudly. I do realize, though, that NYU is over 40 times bigger than my school.

Maybe NYU has grown to be just too big for its own good, therefore necessitating all of this bureaucracy.

@george: No leaders. TBNYU! doesn’t believe in a leadership hierarchy. Call one of them the leader and they’ll freak out.

i figured, but thought id be helpful just in case

Knocking guards around = shooting self in foot

[Female guard] “must have really gotten knocked around” — you just had to edit yourself on the broken vs hurt arm thing…. There’s a good chance the “authorities” are being, let’s say, “overly cautious” and calling the ambulance in order to paint the students as “dangerous.”

Statement from TBNYU(!) on their website:

We, the students of the occupation, remain firmly and entirely committed to our statement of non-violence. Our fight is not with the guards; our fight is with the administration, and unfortunately the administration is hiding behind the security guards instead of confronting us themselves. We have every intention of maintaining civil relationships with the security guards and fully support them in the carrying out of their duties. While we are not sorry for continuing the occupation and for bringing more students in, we do not intend our occupation to cause harm to anyone, both guards and students alike.

http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doorstopfailvr5.jpg

is the live feed still up?

The tactics TBNYU have been using thus far have been plain ridiculous, but injuring innocent people is going too far (yes, guards are innocent, they’re only doing their job). There’s absolutely no way NYU will give in to ANY of their demands now – they’ve really screwed the pooch.

Hopefully this will all end soon, and without any more harm coming to anyone.

no hierarchy? that’s ridiculous, and most likely the cause of the unorganized nature of this protest

PS. Does anyone else feel like this is a ridiculous microcosmic parody of the isreal/ palestine conflict? Q: are the injuries to these two guards going to be the handful of rockets that bring an all-out shock and awe response from the university down on these kids?

this is beyond stupid, especially the people joining in. Get a life, join a team do something

@ Ben: 1 day b% from all boards for posting this link.

The following link contains a translation of TBNYU’s demands, and I believe it is quite accurate and really gets to the heart of the matter.

http://fakebacknyu.blogspot.com/

Charlie, good job for ignoring their threats and sticking it out this whole time! Your blogging is very much appreciated!

From Sarah’s dad…

-
To: John.saxton@nyu.edu
Subject: Negotiate with the Students

Paul J. Magno Jr.

3650 Warder St NW

Washington DC 20010

John Saxton, President

& the Board of Trustees

New York University

70 Washington Square South

New York NY 10012

Dear President Saxton & the Board of Trustees,

I am a parent of a student at New York University and I write in support of those student activists who have occupied the Kimmel Center since last night. A great deal of back and forth has ensued in the media about their action and the demands they make on.

Many, perhaps including some of you, are inclined to dismiss or resist the demands that have been offered by those students. I believe that would be a mistake.

Instead, take the issues they raise seriously and pursue a good-faith discussion of them with their negotiating team. Fundamentally the notion that an institution such as NYU ought to be accessible, transparent and accountable with respect to its finances is reasonable and sound. The proposals offered by the students toward that end are an excellent start down that road. NYU, like many of our social institutions in this period of economic crisis, needs to have that discussion. Indeed it is clear that much of the crisis our society now faces is a result of powerful and influential people and institutions conducting financial affairs as if they were responsible to no one. Philosophically this is unreasonable in the democratic society we purport to reside in; practically that refusal of oversight and accountability to others, to the common good and to basic justice has led to catastrophic consequences. NYU has been presented an exceptional opportunity to make a clear departure from such attitudes and practices. Take it – and in doing so, set a good example for your peers in social and educational leadership, as well as for the young people taking issue with NYU’s conduct to date.

With respect to other demands, concerning the Palestinian people, the complaint has been raised that this is a peripheral concern to NYU. Why? That our students should be scandalized by the violence visited on Gaza, and moved by the injustice, suffering and death inflicted thereby, ought to be honored by the institutions that aspire to educate them, not dismissed or derided as political extremism. I want these young people to grow in their thoughtfulness, compassion and yes, even passion against war and all the harm it does to our world. Sadly, Palestine’s has been an appallingly lopsided experience of that harm for generations now. That it should end, and that an institution such as NYU could be an instrument of consciously leading a different, peaceful history is not unreasonable. What should a great university do to influence the world to the good but take sides – and take sides not with the treacherous, bloody history that scandalizes the world, but with its antithesis. Justice and peace for Palestine will continue to be out of reach as long as influential institutions such as NYU – especially with its American and Jewish identity – continue to think Palestine’s fate is not its concern – or worse yet appear to side with continuing war and oppression. The best of American and Jewish tradition stands up – for liberty and justice, for the suffering; it does not sit out these great questions. Honor that tradition, learn from our young people, engage the question on the side of human progress.

As to the additional demands offered by the student; negotiate them as well. The students ask a lot of their university and their elders, yet not too much. That it be about the common good, fair and responsive to its workers and students, and to the community in which it dwells – these should be minimal, reasonable things to expect of us, I think. Provide them.

As I close, I reiterate that you have the opportunity to be adult and responsive to the challenges put before you by this student action. In doing so you have the opportunity to learn from them and move NYU forward to a very different place than it is presently.

Please don’t waste this opportunity.

Sincerely,

Paul Magno

PS. As I write I received a call from my daughter, a junior at Tisch, that she has joined the occupation. I don’t think she’ll be the last and I pray you’ll take her and all of them to be what I know them to be; serious proponents of a more just and peaceful campus, community and world. They make me proud. I hope you will too.

I came here with the intention of writing a lengthy, well-thought-out perspective of the protest, but there’s really no need. Anyone who doesn’t see that this is the WRONG WAY to go about doing something…just stay inside Kimmel—see how that works for your cause.

This protest is a waste of many people’s time, energy, and resources. Not to mention, some of these demands are completely random and irrelevant. I love a good protest, if the situation calls for it…but this is foolish.

TBNYU was misinformed when they started all of this, and I’m sad to say they’re going to lose this battle. I hope they don’t get completely f***ed by NYU…

@ Brett Anon: What?

“Q: are the injuries to these two guards going to be the handful of rockets that bring an all-out shock and awe response from the university down on these kids?”

I don’t know if it will, but it should be.

Part of me wants these kids to rot in there for weeks to see if they ever crack once their little game and attention is gone. Part of me once to see the SWAT team roll and pound their asses as they get expelled. First damaging property, now violence against guards? Through all of their “social conscious” demands, their actions here have been nothing but self-centered.

*John Sexton

Good. Let them get arrested.

@ben: nvm, misplaced assumption based on your post.

It seems that the burden of this protest has been wrongfully placed. Their intentions are drifting from trying to settle many demands spread ridiculously thin towards merely the want of something thrilling. Hurting those who literally serve night and day to protect us, offer safe transportation, and put up with our many shenanigans, including this one, to satisfy their own cravings for some sort of high through this protest is completely unacceptable. If they want to be taken seriously again, they must physically and mentally step back and remember what drove them to stage this sit in initially.

greg h, wtf is your problem, you want them to get their heads pounded? You sick son

@Charlie– Do you have a NYPD press pass?

Greg H:

They jimmied a damn deadbolt. Crying destruction of property is acting like they’re in there taking sledgehammers to the place.

You’re crying about them being too radical and attention whoring, when you’re just a knee-jerk reactionary who sounds sore that someone else is hogging limelight you wish you had.

SPELLINGJOHNSEXTONFAIL

Yeah, Greg H is a disturbed individual.

This is a private university. No one is forcing you to attend this university. If you don’t like how it is run or how high tuition is, you have thousands of other universities available to you. Instead of disrupting everyone else’s education, enroll at your local community college.

Re: “Part of me once to see the SWAT team roll and pound their asses as they get expelled”

I would hope the university would find a way to be bigger than that: all they’re going to do is martyr these kids if they respond to harshly. Not to mention the protests, lawsuits, and general malaise that would probably follow, or the increased street cred the protesters would gain by being arrested.

second george on that one

and in terms of the guards’ injuries, while they may have just been trying to do their jobs, does this not bother you at all?

“Students were screaming obscenities and “don’t touch me, you can’t touch me” as guards shoved, grabbed and kicked to try to prevent them from making it into the room”

though upon reading this again, WSN has amended their description from, “hitting, tripping, and trying to kick”

it would be tragic if any serious violence results from this, it will also be interesting how NYU handles it? IMO they shouldnt have put the guards in a position to get hurt, and should definitely not do something rash and drastic this morning. People seem tense, and it doesnt need to end up like the isreale palestein conflict, meaning fubar

(I changed my name to avoid confusion with “Brett Anon)

@ Joe: You ignore “but not limited to.” Security officers are “licensed” to be on the premises by virtue of their status as NYU guards.

@ Eric: Fair point. However, the university, as owner of the premises, has the right to decide to open and close it as it sees fit (the University could decide to close it for a snow day, for example. See NYS court’s criminal jury instructions on this issue (in particular footnote 4): http://www.courts.state.ny.us/cji/1-General/Defenses/CJI2d.Justification.Criminal_Trespass.pdf

The last thing these protesters need is any more reassurance.

Your game is cute until your actions break a guard’s arm. Any punishment they get is well deserved and hopefully legal action is taken as far as it can be. Expulsion is no longer enough. Obviously I don’t want further physical violence to result from this, but I do want these kids to face the consequences for their actions, something they clearly didn’t consider.

@Charlie: What’s your plan if the occupation gets raided? Have you ID’d yourself as press?

greg put down the haterade

What are they doing still discussing semantics in their nonviolence speech? They have gotten NOTHING accomplished. Not a single demand. It was even a struggle to get some freakin’ food, and since then they’ve just pissed off the university more. Can anyone say shitshow?

def shitshow, dont need violence though

@Brett S– Yes, but that would seem to imply that NYU would have to order the NYU students to leave before they could try to arrest them for trespassing. My understanding is that that won’t happen until 1.

@Charlie– Do you want a quick primer on the rules of videotaping/dealing with police?

They’ve changed the statement online:

“We, the students of the occupation, remain firmly and entirely committed to our statement of non-violence. Our fight is not with the guards; our fight is with the administration, and unfortunately the administration is hiding behind the security guards instead of confronting us themselves. While we are not sorry for continuing the occupation and for bringing more students in, we do not intend our occupation to cause harm to anyone, both guards and students alike.”

charley your gonna get busted just like all the other kids there if this pops off like it could,

you better try and signify that you are separate and press

what could you do to signify that you are separate?

I just posted this on TBNYU’s website. I know they’re only posting the positive messages – so much for accountability and transparency, huh? – and I’m wondering how many people agree with me:

“If you are all being fueled by thinking your being the savior of every nyu student, you should all just stop now. Most of us don’t agree with your methods and almost none of us agree with any more than two of your demands. If you don’t believe me, there are NYULocal online polls that are quickly dropping out of support for you. Please stop, because you’re embarrassing all of us, and we don’t want you being the face of NYU.”

He can leave before 1AM.

Charlie: If you get arrested with TBNYU, perhaps you will have more sympathy.

To TBNYU: Stay strong. Change is possible, but it involves people taking brave risks. Many people are with you in spirit.

i was thinking face paint

After all that non-vegan food, you’re still hungry?

I almost forgot, did the NYTimes reporter leave?

Charlie–your coverage has been really amazing and I totally applaud you for being stuck in a room with these guys for this long and not fucking losing it. I was gonna fill tonight with Rock of Love reruns, but this is just so much more dramatic.

Has there been a statement from Sexton or any administration?

Charlie, my buddy and I have been following along all day at work. You’ve made this little embarrassing jaunt pretty entertaining. God speed. Perhaps writing “PRESS” somewhere on your person would help?

Btw, did we get more press than New School for this?

Can’t wait to see how this turns out in the morning, stay safe.

lol I hope someone wets themselves

PS. That food looked really good, and I’m even more pissed now that I had to miss my Thursday White Pizza and Yolato.

Try to blog from jail if possible…… no, seriously, we will take a collection and bail you out!

GUYS, SHUT IT DOWN, SOMEONE IS MISSING THEIR THURSDAY WHITE PIZZA AND YOLATO.

How could they have BEEN so thoughtless?!?!?!

Seriously. Is anyone else here watching their streaming video? This is extremely embarrassing. In the two minutes I’ve seen so far, they’ve apologized for using profanity and then espoused (with many uses of F**k) how exciting it is that they get to use a megaphone. And now they’re specifically seeking adults who can “speak articulately”.

I’m saving copies of every picture that WSN puts up that has protesters faces. If they try to delete them later like they did with the blog post naming that kid who was one of the founders and had broken in, I’ll send them all on to the administration.

@Chris Whats the link for the streaming video?

@ Claire- That’s a lot of calories!

@Charlie– My main suggestion would be to check with Public Safety (preferably one of the ones in white shirts) and ask if you’re included in any potential orders to leave. If you aren’t, then you basically aren’t trespassing. Have them tell NYPD that.

Then if NYPD does come in, it’s perfectly legal to videotape them as long as you aren’t impeding police work. I’d stand in a corner to try to avoid any issues, and obviously get shield numbers of any officer who tries to block you. Again, normal disclaimer that I’m not a lawyer, this isn’t legal advice, and don’t blame me if you get arrested.

PS- You deserve a press pass.

@Brett

I wasn’t ignoring it, just seemed that the law goes out of its way to specify only security guards at nuclear power plants–if it was meant to include all security guards, why not just say so?

if that’s the case, then, as TBNYU says, school administrators really are hiding behind the guards, as they have every much as right as the guards do to give us students a beat down

…though i suppose it wouldn’t do very much for JSex’s huggly bear image

TWITTERING THE SHIT OUTTA HELEN AND MARTIN KIMMEL!

twitter.com/kennycity

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/take-back-nyu

@Paul – http://www.ustream.tv/channel/take-back-nyu

not much going on now as they are talking following the meeting

WPIX just ran their story on the protest. It focused mainly on the topless girls demanding fiscal transparency – no mention of the demands about coke, gaza, or bobst

Jesus fucking Christ, I leave to go have my anniversary dinner with my girlfriend and I miss the breaking of the non-violence promise!? Can I volunteer to join the 1 AM head busting unit? I’ll even bring my own uniform. Confession: the uniform is an Optimus Prime costume. But still. . . NYPD, consider my offer. I can sound like a scary robot with my helmet on.

Dear Esteemed Comrade Sexton,

As a goodwill gesture to America I hereby offer my services pro-bono to the trustees of NYU in handling the “negotiating” for this matter.

With Love,
Vladdy

@Matt

the child and the swimming pool made me cringe….repeatedly

I’ve hastily written a little ditty for our intrepid occupants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1jWh4U3IoU

As someone who spent 43 days locked in an administrative building at Murdoch University in 2003, all I can say is GO GO GO

Just stick to non violence principles (hurting the guard was a bad idea guys) and stand firm and you’ll win.

If they evict you, return tomorrow. If they arrest you, send back a friend.

They’ll cave in eventually. They always do. You wont get your whole demand, but thats the beauty of the gambit. You didn’t expect to anyway

http://www.bu.edu/ar/financials/

Boston University Published its financial statements despite being a private university. What is NYU hiding?

Matt is vying with Greg H for the sicko meathead comment of the night award. Do we have a winner?

Dude- this is the best stuff that I have read in months. I am absolutely fascinated by this. Thank you so much for putting up with all of this douchey, circus-atmosphere hilarity, for the sake of us readers. Think any of these protesters voted for McCain? (ask someone there, please!). You da man.

First off, great work, Charlie–I’ve been glued to my screen all day, and I don’t even go to NYU.
Second, a word about the Local-NYU dustup on WNYU: i think that what the WSN kids were trying to say — however clumsily — is that the two sites provide different services to readers. NYULocal certainly deserves props for being the first to pursue the story, for soliciting such a diverse range of opinions columns, and, of course, for your elegant, entertaining and extensive liveblog. But WSN has been able to get stories that you couldn’t, simply by virtue of being outside — the stuff about the injured guard, John Beckman’s statement, etc. The two publications’ coverage has been amazingly complementary, and anyone reading one or the other wouldn’t be getting the full picture. I think that’s all that the WSN folks were trying to say. I haven’t been following the rivalry/situation too closely, but i have to say that my general impression is that NYULocal has been pretty critical of, condescending to, and even downright rude and hurtful to WSN and its editors from the get-go, and tonight is just yet another example. The WSN guys were really complimentary to NYULocal on the radio, and you guys jumped on them. In fact, it seems like NYULocal is always making jabs at WSN, never the other way around.
That said, keep it up, Charlie and the rest of the team.

TBNYU does not represent the thoughts and wishes of the more than 42,000 students that make up the NYU Student Body!!!! I disagree with most o f their views and all of their tactics. NYU should arrest them and get this over with. And each student participating should be held personally responsible for all injuries and damages, and accept all consequences of their actions.

@Damon – Thank you.

@ NP

http://www.nyu.edu/about/budget/

NYU’s budget numbers are and always have been public.
Try again.

you’re on channel 4. right now.

Dear N.P.,

Just because one institution reports their financial statements doesn’t mean NYU has to follow. Not disagreeing with you but the Boston University Example isn’t that great.

Looks like they’re back on the balcony again…

[...] Local’s link [...]

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“We will not cooperate till you negotiate”

Channel 2 right now

Did they really suspend potty breaks?

I got some of their announcement transcribed:

“They have asked us what we will give them if they agree to negotiate with us…..we aren’t giving them shit! We are strong, and we are united! Now is the time for you all to be as loud as you possibly can…we want you to be loud so they can hear you inside that meeting, we want them to be fucking scared”

They’re calling for negotiations and demanding to talk in a democratic manner and start that by saying “we ain’t budging on shit.”

Hypocrites.

What freedom and oppression are they talking about?

“the sweet voices of freedom rising up through the streets”? Could these people possibly be more melodramatic?

If that was just on TV, they just lost all of their credibility. Fucking amateurs.

the streaming vid is priceless

Greg H:

I think you’re missing the point of negotiations. Negotiations meaning that they don’t want to have to start off losing by saying they’ll make a deal just to be able to sit down and talk with someone.

But nice job trying to call hypocrisy and failing pretty hard.

im embarrassed to say i attend nyu right now

There isn’t really anyone from Serbia watching, I just said that ffrom my dorm at Union Square

whoever hurt that poor guard…. not cool. this is an embarrassment for NYU students.

From the TBNYU website:

We have just gotten word from our student representatives that NYU ADMINISTRATION HAS AGREED TO BEGIN NEGOTIATIONS!!!

We will update you as soon as we finish the first round of negotiations. Thank you again to the tireless supporters outside, some of whom have been out in the cold all day today and last night – we love you so very much, and we could never have accomplished this. You are all amazing.

Question- Did anyone ever hear about TBNYU’s demands before today? Did anyone ever think they were anything more than a bored teenager obsessed with tagging the sidewalk? PROTESTS ARE A LAST RESORT. If you wanted our support, TBNYU, you should have asked for it. I would have been with you, except your unfocused, disorganized protest makes you look ridiculous and immature.

Charlie- if you get in trouble for being in there with those protesters, I will personally start my own Take Back Charlie! campaign. Judging by your fan club posting on your wall, I can tell we all appreciate your rational, educated voice and the positive representation of our school that you’re giving off. Thanks for being the only one at Kimmel that’s actually interested in educating the masses.

uhhh…. “I’m looking up some performance poetry”
??!?!

New thread?

How did Duncan Meisel manage to get WSN to delete the posts naming him as being involved?

@ Eric: I think you’re referring to some vagueness concern – the person has to have some reasonable notice that he does not have permission before you can charge him with trespassing. I would think a guard’s telling the students “you can’t go up there” would suffice.

@ Joe: I agree it’s a little odd that they bothered to single out nuclear security personnel only. However, I can’t see this defining the full scope of licensees permitted to use physical force to resist a trespass – otherwise no one would ever be able to physically protect their property from someone attempting to enter it.

“Tear it down”???? For real?

im starting to wonder what the backlash of this is going to be…

Wow. TBNYU – not willing to give in a little? You can’t expect to get all your demands. That’s not how it works in a negotiation. You guys fail hardcore.

@Charlie, are you planning on staying past 1 AM?

who is the kid on the streaming vid?

they lost me now

This is dumber than the time that fake secret society painted bird feet in the park.

LOL at them pretending that NYU being “willing to negotiate” is some huge victory.

SPINSPINSPIN

these kids are delusional

is anyone else following this from europe and wondering where their night went?

“we want NYU to be as responsible and as culturally aware as it claims to be in its quest to be a global university…
we are absolutely commited to staying until they negotiate
that’s fucking right and this is not just a new york struggle, this is an international struggle”

“I think you’re missing the point of negotiations. Negotiations meaning that they don’t want to have to start off losing by saying they’ll make a deal just to be able to sit down and talk with someone.”

I don’t know what this even means. I guess I’m not as smart as you.

First of all, Charlie, one of my fellow alums alluded in an earlier comment to our constant refreshing of your blog at our respective jobs. Good work, thanks for the updates, and stay out of trouble.

That having been said, from what I’ve been hearing while talking to people, checking Facebook, etc., the view of TBNYU’s stunt is overwhelmingly negative. While I obviously can’t say my sample is representative, it seems that a lot of alums see this as an embarrassment. Something we’ll have to explain when we say we went to NYU.

Personally, I believe if they had stuck to the transparency issue (which seems to be their chief issue and one that a lot of people can at least see as legitimate) and, you know, not taken over a fucking student building, then they might have had more support. But with the laundry list of demands of varying relevance and feasibility, as well as the takeover and the rushing of the room, it’s hard to take this seriously. The word I’ve been hearing a lot is “childish.” TBNYU acting as if they speak for everyone doesn’t sit well either.

With that, I’m off to bed and I’ll check back tomorrow.

Can we have a new thread please???

@Bob

looking at those numbers, why does NYU have such a high revenue from dental patients? and none at all mentioned from medical ones?

@ Sydney: I’m an alum, and I heard about TBNYU back in ‘07 when I was still at the school – they have been organizing for over 2 years.

@Joe

I think med school’s budget is separate – it’s something like 3X the size of the rest of NYU’s budget combined.

And no idea why so much dental revenue – maybe they just provide a lot of services.

@ Erin

And aren’t we all proud of how far they’ve come.

Charlie: STAY STRONG! reporters (including me) and readers everywhere are rooting for you. also I suggest maybe doing a little tag-teaming for updating your blog with some friendly TBNYUers so you can get some rest if you’re too strained.
and how has TBNYU been treating YOU so far? have you mostly been keeping to yourself/blogging/interviewing the willing or…fill in blank?
also- now that the bathroom is off-limits, have they busted out the kitty litter and buckets?

Can we please, please, please have a new thread?

And you rock!

i think that peter with the glasses touched on a point that is linked to our shitbox of an economy – these nyu students are asking themselves: why the fuck is this education worth 40k when i’m only going to be unemployed when i get out?

This has been an absolutely fascinating account of today’s events. Charlie, thank you for making it available. I am an administrator at NYU and am really horrified by this entire spectacle. I love my job and I love the NYU community, but I see so much spoiled, flighty obsequiousness from students on a daily basis here that it is totally impossible to stomach at this level. My sympathies lie entirely with the administration dealing with this nonsense, and the guards who were injured. TBNYU: You are not at NYU for this and neither are we.

WSN has some more details on the negotiations:

http://blogs.nyunews.com/2009/02/19/negotiations-set-to-begin-soon/

You may want to get out of there… I see cops down at the entrance skirball planning SOMETHING. Don’t know what. But there is a gropu that you guys can’t see from your vantage point. I’m a friend in bobst. Just letting you know…

From the interview with the “occupier”:
He mentioned his time abroad in France in a school system that was cheaper and better run. Speaking of the American collegiate experience, he says, “I’m disillusioned with the cost and the supposed benefit of that cost.”

Um, is he aware that there ARE American universities that don’t charge the $45k tuition that NYU does? I’m having a hard time understanding why someone “disillusioned with the cost” of American education would choose to matriculate at one of America’s most expensive colleges…

“This has been an absolutely fascinating account of today’s events. Charlie, thank you for making it available. I am an administrator at NYU and am really horrified by this entire spectacle. I love my job and I love the NYU community, but I see so much spoiled, flighty obsequiousness from students on a daily basis here that it is totally impossible to stomach at this level. My sympathies lie entirely with the administration dealing with this nonsense, and the guards who were injured. TBNYU: You are not at NYU for this and neither are we.”

Great comment. From top to bottom. I’ve been very critical of the students’ actions, but I haven’t really said anything about the great work Charlie is doing in all of this. It’d be a shame if he were to be lumped with these kids.

TB NYU shouldnt spraypaint nyc sidewalks.

“11:46 – Overheard: “Let’s not get scared, guys.” ==> Get scared, guys.”

Gee, I can’t imagine why some of the protesters would be shunning you!

This is embarrassing on so many levels. I went to school with some tools, but none willing to flaunt their selfishness like this. I’m ashamed that the administration has let it get this far. . . what gives these few, these VERY FEW students the right to influence NYU’s policies in accordance with their scattered ideals over the rest of the student body, and those with other connections to the school, like alumni? Are they so self absorbed they don’t see the overwhelming LACK of support they’ve received from their peers?

So what, a few other radical, loosely organized student groups from across the nation have pledged their “solidarity” to your cause. You’re fighting for change at NYU (except when you’re fighting for Palestine), and you need to give a shit about what the student body thinks of your actions. But no, why do that, when you can stay up in your ivory tower you built from the self-righteousness and arrogance only youth can grant you. Well, youth or the fact that you’re simply dicks at heart. I bet it’s a 90-10 split amongst those remaining.

The only lasting embarrassment here is that these people, who passionately wish to represent NYU to the world, refuse to acknowledge what NYU is. You don’t get to turn your backs on the critics, not when you put yourself on a stage like you have this week. NYU is no doubt as diverse a school as it was when I attended, and a school of its size and diversity deserves a chance for true debate over issues that matter. . . not a list of demands you made up and presented during a poorly organized and executed act of protest. How did such ignorant, irresponsible and disrespectful human beings get into a school like NYU? Thanks for making me feel bad about the college I graduated from.

Anyone else getting giddy at the prospect of these kids going to jail and getting kicked out of school?

Charlie needs a press pass before this gets ugly and possibly a Pulitzer

The live feed is back up. Cop cars massing in front of Kimmel, protesters chanting “we’re not leaving!”

does anyone know what ’si se puede’ means?

please, please begin a new thread. scrolling is getting tres annoying.

in the city of 9/11 we’re wasting law enforcements time.

I wonder why they found it so necessary to add another 10 demands to their original list of 3… It was at least focused at some point and they have completely lost legitimacy by expanding upon it. I wonder if the ‘negotiations’ made will address even these founding 3 demands..

overheard- “yo, there’s some good chants coming out of this.”

If they let these kids off with just probation, they’re just going to do it again.

si se puede = yes we can

Stream just went off the air.

Sí, se puede (Spanish for “Yes, it can be done”[1]) is the motto of the United Farm Workers. In 1972, during Cesar Chavez’s 24 day fast in Phoenix, Arizona, he and UFW’s co-founder, Dolores Huerta came up with the slogan.

this keeps getting better, there claiming first amendment rights and getting mad that pictures and video will be used to go after them in court.

@ Bob Jones – I am too. I hope the go to jail and would love to see them get expelled.

Do these kids know that they don’t serve a vegan option in the cafeteria at Rikers?

is it packed out from of kimmel. I’m thinking about going down to get kids hauled away at 1 AM but dont want to take on the cold if im not going to be able to see anything.

Charlie, I salute you! I know how hard it can be to have a class with the NYU crazy radicals, so a full 24 hours makes you a hero in my eyes.

P.S. Local has always trumped WSN!

thanks John K!

Also Charlie (tahnks for this whole blog again), I think you should mention that they think it’s “bullshit” that NYU said they can use their live video feed, blogs, pictures, etc. to “incriminate” them. That’s really special. Free Speech doesn’t mean you can’t get in trouble.

AH! I can’t believe I’m at home studying bloody Microecon when I should be outside Kimmel with my camera. I’m this close to saying “fuck it” and going down there to make it by the 1am deadline. What do you say Charlie?

First of all, thank you and good job with your reporting.

In regards to the French system my impression is that while it may be cheaper, at least at the Grad school level professors have many more students and consequently don’t have the time / don’t care enough to give them same amount of guidance that one expects to get at a program in the United states.

I’d also like to add to the “this is embarrassing” sentiment expressed by several other above. This whole mess has come across as chaotic, unorganized (if you want vegan food so bad why didn’t you bring a huge blue IKEA bag full of munchies with you?) not to mention juvenile. I mean really. You’re making us look bad.

Also, I totally recognize the ‘occupier’ from somewhere (Writing the Essay four years ago?) but can’t figure out from where and it’s driving me nuts…

@dave

LOL

If they’d only taken Sexton’s class on the First Amendment, they would have known that it only restricts the power of the government and might have avoided sounding so dumb. Too bad.

Does anybody believe TBNYU has any positive exit strategy? It seems as though their misguided effort has planted themselves in a corner – they either give in and take a “safe haven” lesser punishment and lose their pride/ protest credibility, or they risk expulsion and legal consequences.

I see no good end to this.

Charlie, great job: one suggestion. Liveblog in reverse, with your most recent updates above the jump.

“Mom? Dad? It’s me. Don’t freak out, but I got arrested and am facing expulsion for trespassing and destruction of property at the school that you’ve now pumped $150,000 of your would-be retirement savings into. But it was in solidarity with Europeans and with Gaza, so… we’re cool, right? Also… do you think you drive on up and get me out of here? Like, now, please? Mom? Mom? Mom?”

From Sarah Magno:

The rally of 300 students outside moved the police barriers and took over the street!

TBNYU is getting some very useful support now.

You’re a fool, Charlie. The last thing NYU wants to do is drag out these students forcefully. No matter what anyone wants to say about these protesters, the fact is, their demands are just. Most of NYU’s graduates are going into a job market that has NOTHING for them. Sorry. But it’s true. We want a society where higher education is a privilege and where students have to worry about 120 thousand dollars of debt hanging over their heads by the time they leave school? Sure there are cheaper institutions but as a university that claims to have prestige, the basis for admission should not be class or economic status, it should be merit and the quality of work. When universities become overly expensive greedy and corrupt corporations that have millions of dollars in endowments but still continue to jack up prices to the point that average students cannot go there unless they decide to become indentured slaves for the next 25 years of their lives, THERE’S A PROBLEM.

In regards to the Palestinian questions, these students are not alone. In fact most of the international community condemns Israel’s actions in the Gaza Strip. Students have been demonstrating and taking over their campuses all over Europe in response to the situation in Gaza. How do you think South African Apartheid ended? Protests, divestment campaigns, and students played an integral role in this.

The demand for recognition of Palestinian suffering is not an abstract demand for ANYONE living in the U.S., as our government happens to fund the state of Israel. IT IS ONLY RIGHT that STUDENTS and CITIZENS of the U.S. alike should be demonstrating and resisting their government’s sponsoring of mass murder in the Middle East. These students are resisting in a way that reflects their participation in community and society, they are demanding their school behave responsibly and that means operating in a fiscally, ethically responsible way.

To the haters of TBNYU: Your complaining is so sad to me. You want to live in a bubble, isolated from the rest of the world, and then you wonder why the entire world breathed a breath of fresh air when people here elected Barack Obama into office recently. The world has been cringing for the past 8 years over the things the U.S. government is doing, and condemning the seeming apathy of American citizens in passively observing those actions. If you want to be passive and apathetic about the actions of your government, then do it but don’t hate on people who actually care enough about the world they live in to stake a position and risk their lives for it. They are fighting for your right to a decent education, and their demands are just.

TBNYU! will not get dragged out by police. Believe you me. The world may not be watching yet, but let them try to drag these students out and it will not bode well for the image of NYU one bit, both at home, and abroad.

we’re pulling for you charlie. best of luck, man.

[...] A blogger behind the barricades at New York University’s student takeover was barred from the protesters’ planning meetings. Scooplet: one of the demonstrators is an elected student senator. [NYU Local] [...]

re: 954PM

what’s really funny is that they claim to give a shit about anyone’s wellbeing (mostly their own) but still smoke cigarettes anyway. you’re not so concerned about that money, now are you? great job everyone.

[...] like President Obama, you too can live up to the hope and change you promised you when we democratically entrusted you with the leadership of our school. [...]