I wouldn’t diminish the impact that other campus groups have had. Two years ago Oxfam America @ NYU asked the administration if they would switch all coffee on campus to Fair Trade. They said yes. NYU has an enormous coffee contract, and now it upholds equity and sustainability in developing communities. The Sustainability Task Force just did same thing with bottled water, and now the free Poland Springs is off next year’s meal plan. Of course inaction won’t cut it, but I’m not convinced this protest will either. I guess we’ll find out. As for what TBNYU! could have achieved through more diplomatic tactics, we’ll never know.

I still don’t understand why tbnyu’ers somehow think they have a right to some sort of power in financial and administrative decisions.

Maybe no one has told them yet, but NYU is a *private* university. They get to make whatever decisions they want as long as it doesn’t interfere with legal or constitutional rights.

Students are consumers of the education NYU is selling. TBNYU has two options; one, they can ask nicely or offer suggestions, or two, they can stop buying the education and switch schools.

Yeah, I think the first hole is in the very name . . . Take Back NYU? Fools, it was never yours to begin with. As pointed out already, it’s a private university. I have no particular feelings on the demands they’re making (except that the first one boils down to “Please don’t get us in trouble!”. . . that’s some punk-ass protesting), but they don’t really have any ground to stand on. Don’t like it, stop paying tuition and go find a school you feel comfortable with. Sucks, but that’s how it rolls.

My frustration with TBNYU! at the present is not so much a complaint over its strategy as its tactics. I agree that radical action is sometimes necessary (and perhaps it is in this case), however, I think that action must be focused at the NYU administration itself. Where the New School sit-in was a directly focused towards that school’s administration; it took place at the location of a Board of Trustees meeting. On the other hand, TBNYU!’s actions thus far haven’t been focused in such a manner. A party in the library or a sit in of the student center seems more like an assault on the school than the administration. This, I think, is why so many students have become irked by the movement’s actions. But hey, maybe I’m wrong.

And, I’ve been noticing recently that many of TBNYU!’s members are responding to criticism of their strategies by saying that those who offer that criticism are “quibblers” “who offer no means at all to create a better university.” Critical, apathetic, and lazy these people may be, but they are the ones that ultimately need to be won over for success. Just a thought.

Can I ask why Gaza is part of the platform of an organization called “take back nyu”

matt and chris, right on. nyu is private. i believe in protest, so long as the goal and mission and dedication is articulated correctly and followed thoroughly. but…what is this “Take Back NYU” name. ughhh.. just dumb. transfer and save 150k in debt! what’s so hard to understand about that.

why the fuck aren’t you guys protesting against the immoral wars in iraq and afganistan? or the fact that nyc’s mayor is screwing new yorkers by illegally placing himself on the ballot for a third term, NOT allowing city residents the chance to vote on whether they WANT to give him a shot at a third term.

more than 500,000 innocent people in iraq alone have been killed by coalition forces since the us invasion a few years back. or has everyone just given barack immunity for four years to continue the same old shit, apparently yes. times are getting tough with this plummeting economy, and a LOT of people are going to be dissapointed this time next year, when a) iraq still has 100,000 us soldiers in it and b) afganistan has double the troops it has now. that’s where money is going in this country. military industrial complex, nyu’ers! wake up! your leaders don’t give a shit about financing education, that’s why private uni’s like nyu pilfer students for whatever they want. it’s a business,and it’s obvious that U.S. business practices are corrrrrupt and care not for the lower or middle class.

there’s something to break shit over.
or 9/11. jesus. wake up.
stop playing on facebook and read a real book. i’d suggest david ray griffin’s “new pearl harbor.”

Maddie: agreed, this was not directed at Oxfam, which is a totally legit organization – it just doesn’t deal with the same things Take Back NYU! does. My concern is with folks like Avery (see below), who generally make counterproductive arguments about means and ends.

Avery: It’s quibbling unless you do something. Until you offer something else to try or do, you’re only asking for people to do nothing instead of acting, and that is unacceptable. Sorry, yo.

Duncan, since you’re reading this comment thread, I have a sincere question. . . what is the correlation between the problems in Gaza and the problems TBNYU has with the university? I know a number of people following this story are struggling to see why the two causes are being championed by this single protest.

again, what does Gaza have to do with taking back New York University? I find the demand to fund the University there rather strange…it is a HOTBED of radical Islam — NYU should be funding a school that requires all female students to be veiled? won’t allow male professors on the womens campus? great — send my money right over.

Chis, you may not understand that a private educational institution such as NYU is non-profit that has to operate for the public’s benefit- including its students, the local community and the state. In turn they don’t pay taxes and receiving tens of millions of dollars in government aid, are able to get privileges in zoning, resources usage, etc.

I think you are confusing this with a proprietary college, a private business which only has to share information with shareholders and the government.

Look, I’m one of the people who agree with TBNYU’s goals but not their tactics. I’m a crazy leftist but I’ll be honest, groups who claim that anyone who isn’t 100% behind them is some kind of traitor are always failures. There’s a better way to do this, there are other groups that want to help, that have resources, that agree with TBNYU’s goals, but TBNYU has always been so smug in their fantasies about radicalism and the 60s that they refuse to listen to the concerns of people who completely support them but their tactics are counterproductive.

Since when was it NYU’s job to save the world?

I can see value in a student group taking a seemingly extreme measure to draw the attention of student body. All the same, I am looking forward to see how TBNYU! plans to implement their demands which clearly need a cooperation with student governments and administrations. The self-gratuitous and mocking tone of this article is simply offensive to fellow students and other campus groups– I don’t see how this kind of attitude will draw supports from anybody else but themselves. I hope the seize ends safely and hope we will discuss TBNYU!’s demands in a more productive atmosphere.

@ Duncan. Right, I know you’re not attacking Oxfam, and I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you. I’m sure there are some Oxfamers at the protest right now, and I’m with Pat in supporting the goal of budget transparency but I think TBNYU! jumped the gun. Seriously dude, the Sustainability Task Force got the administration to do some pretty radical (and expensive) shit, like switching to wind power and budgeting for rooftop gardens. It took a reasoned plan, expert advising, and a lot of diplomacy. I just think this would have panned out differently if TBNYU! had rolled out a well-researched plan for incremental budget disclosure, with, say, some finance professors backing it up. And seriously, what’s with the Gaza demands? I take it that’s why you’re not there.

Matt: the choice to include Gaza was made because of the wave of occupations across the world making similar demands. Members of TBNYU! think it is important to join in support of those actions in order to end the ongoing war against Gaza.

Pat: This would be true if there was another ‘productive’ movement for student democracy for Take Back NYU! to ‘counter.’ NYU’s administration will not change on its own without student action, and no one else is stepping up. Members of Take Back NYU! do not necessarily think you have to be with them, but rather that you have to be doing something.

@Duncan

Why aren’t you in it? Can you clarify what you mean by personal and political?

Duncan–

I don’t understand the motivation for public access to Bobst library…

You want our school to be more affordable,
so why should students be forced to pay taxes
on a public library that would be tax-free for the public?

Perhaps offering membership at a price would be a better idea…
This way we wouldn’t deal with an overwhelming and unpredictable
influx of people and would be generating funds that actually COULD
benefit the school’s financial standing.

“Matt: the choice to include Gaza was made because of the wave of occupations across the world making similar demands. Members of TBNYU! think it is important to join in support of those actions in order to end the ongoing war against Gaza.”

So Grand Master Duncan, you think that because other occupation groups added Gaza to their list of Demands means that you should as well? So its not something that TBNYU thought of entirely by themselves, but more of a “Hey, tons of other people are doing it, so we should!”

And about ending the war against Gaza. You jump on the bandwagon and choose to bring the Gaza issue up in your demands because of its relevance in today’s news. Would TBNYU even care about it if it wasn’t all over the media? What about all the wars all over the world where people are dieing every day from unprovoked aggression against them? Oh that’s right you forgot about them. Seeing as how you added Gaza to your demands, you might want to tack on World Peace as well. With your reasoning, I’m pretty sure John Sexton and NYU are responsible for anything bad that happens to people, and they should be held accountable for their actions.

Matt/Ben/others asking for clarification re: demands- see http://takebacknyu.com/2009/02/19/why-we-finally-really-took-back-nyu/

Madeline: The Gaza demands had no bearing on my participation. I believe aid to students in Gaza is both timely and just, and NYU would be better off for reaching out to help students suffering under military occupation.

Also: meet outside Kimmel at 10am for a rally to support students inside.

So how come no one has answered Duncan’s challenge to step up in a different way to acheive financial transparency? Honestly, folks, its your money, and I personally am ashamed that I have no idea where it is going, especially when I see the grade of education I’m currently receiving (We pay Ivy League prices, so how come we have blow-off classes and blow-off professors?

And for everyone who disagrees with TBNYU!, its methodology or goals (myself partially included), why are you content to just sit silent until you can shoot somebody down? You know, we could have opened dialogue with the administration, we could have talked to TBNYU! members, but instead we have been for the large part completely silent and complacent. If you don’t stand up for your views you shouldn’t be surprised when they don’t matter.

Talk to the administration. Talk to TBNYU!. Talk to Duncan. Talk to me, your roommate, your classmate, anyone. But Jesus fuckin’ Christ don’t just sit around silently ’til you find a good moment to bitch.

Benjamin: Bobst does have access to community members for a fee. See http://library.nyu.edu/about/friends.html for details.

@Henry: it’s not NYU’s job to save the world and TBNYU! isn’t trying to make it. They are simply asking that as citizens on this planet we not contribute to or sit idly by the injustices that threaten it.

@madeline: TBNYU! has been trying the diplomatic efforts with a letter to the administration and a request for a meeting to discuss……that went ignored.

@duncan: the only hole in the argument i see is in your grammar. second to last paragraph…”towards realizing…” never towards, always toward. best of luck though, you still spew flowers…

@Henry: it’s not NYU’s job to save the world and TBNYU! isn’t trying to make it. They are simply asking that as citizens on this planet we not contribute to or sit idly by the injustices that threaten it.

@madeline: TBNYU! has been trying the diplomatic efforts with a letter to the administration and a request for a meeting to discuss……that went ignored.

@duncan: the only hole in the argument i see is in your grammar. second to last paragraph…”towards realizing…” never towards, always toward. best of luck though, you still spew flowers…

regardless of my, or anyone’s views the issue, i think that tbnyu could double the size of their occupation by removing their demands for nyu involvement in gaza.

maybe..get ready for this guys…maybe the offensive against gaza was justified GASP!!!

[...] Duncan Meisel of TBNYU Explains the Kimmel Occupation (NYU Local) [...]

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Duncan,

I don’t mean to be defensive, because I do believe that TBNYU! is, generally speaking, making the right moves. The criticism I offered was that I think the specific actions they are taking are less affective than some other similar, equally viable, and equally radical options. If specific suggestions are necessary, then here they are: target administrative centers rather than spaces more commonly associated with students. I thought that was a clear of something else to do in my above post. One suggestion I made to TBNYU! members in the last few weeks, when it was clear that a sit-in was imminent, was to sit-in the student welcome center, rather than a building used primarily for student services.

I’m slightly bemused that you seem to think its impossible to both support a cause and also be at times critical of it. Look, I spent a good deal of last night trying to spread the word about what was happening at Kimmel and why. I tried to help out by getting people inside in touch with the press. So while I won’t pretend I’ve made anything near the commitment that the people inside have, I’ve tried to help where I could, despite my “unacceptable quibbling.”

So, is this an organization that will respond to specific suggestions about tactics with personal attacks about how the person offering advice is “counterproductive?” You tell me.

I think the problem that many people are hinting at is the mixture of process claims with substantive claims. By this I mean that you are demanding representative and transparency aims (which have definitional problems all their own) but at the same time you are seeking to preempt the democratic process with claims of scholarships for students from Gaza. This amalgamation of interests simply makes your demands undemocratic in nature. The idea that 70 NYU students could speak for the whole body on these idealistic moral claims sounds like a call for authoritarianism.

This idea that Mr. Meisel posits, that “quibbling” about means is somehow weak, also seems entirely undemocratic. Democracy is about the means, not the ends. Talking about the process is often the only substance that nearly everyone can agree to in principle. Yes we want transparency. Yes we want representation. Uh maybe we want scholarships for students? Unionization? Immunity for protesters (I’m just imagining Martin Luther King in Birmingham demanding immunity for himself as his first claim… hilarious imagery)? Those questions are the things which people generally resolve through democratic processes. Stop trying to have your cake and shove it down people’s throats too.

I don’t oppose this protest because I have a “crippling passivity,” I oppose it because I’ve read TBNYU’s list of “demands” and found it to be unrealistic and poorly researched.

If NYU is going to weather this financial crisis, we need to retain and recruit the best talent to manage our endowment. Do you think someone with 30 years of experience wants to be lectured by an “oversight body” of students with no industry experience, let alone even basic knowledge of financial markets? (Yes, Duncan, I’ve audited Gallatin’s “Finance for Social Theorists” class. I find it shameful that some of the brightest minds in the country still don’t know the fundamental differences between a stock and a bond after nearly 4 years of higher education. Kudos to Rajsingh for trying to help you guys out, though). Why do you think hedge funds refuse to disclose their investment strategy? Because when you have the secret to success, you don’t want other people catching on and exploiting your competitive advantage. NYU has obviously been doing something right – our endowment has remained relatively unscathed compared to the disasters at other major universities.

President Sexton did not ignore your letter because he is vicious tyrant, he probably ignored it because you did a poor job of presenting yourself and your views. If you don’t take the time to thoroughly research the issues, you don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Instead of holding Kimmel hostage, TBNYU should have simply walked over to Gould Plaza and talked to some of our world-renowned faculty. I’m sure a few finance and econ professors will help you develop a more nuanced and accurate view on university expenditures and endowment management.

Until then, I hope President Sexton does exactly what you should do when toddlers throw temper-tantrums – ignore them and wait for them to cry it out.

one of the terms of NYU’s purchase of the tamiment collection was that the community was allowed access. so if you enter the library, go to the window on the left and ask for a pass to go up to tamiment, they’ll give you a sticker and you can go anywhere in the library.

NYU is so radical dude. HA! Are you kidding me? It is a fucking joke! We are NYU students. Just living in NYC is a privilege let alone going to NYU. It’s a bit ironic and makes me throw up in my mouth to think about how these kids are the students that I have paid (MY PARENTS – OUR PARENTS) over 100K to go to school with. These are the students that most likely talk the most in class without having done the reading. Wake up children we are so young, so naive, and clearly by this demonstration not as smart as we thought. If anything this should be a red flag for the administration that they need to step up the quality of education because clearly it’s below average. We are privileged college students and I really don’t think that we can justify any sort of attack on anything but ourselves.

this is retarded. go to a state school if you want budget disclosure.

Duncan is spot on with his remarks on “quibbling”, which is a fantastic word. Though you can always defend yourself by clarifying that you don’t agree with the demands or that TBNYU has faulty methods of creating change, if your first reaction to this protest was “How the fuck am I going to get my Quesadilla?” or “Those Take Back NYU kids are so fucking annoying” and come at this from that angle, you’re highly likely to quibble. I guarantee you the majority of people who criticize this event are coming from that kind of apathy, as opposed to having legitimate concerns with the demands.

Of course he wasn’t aware that you’d worked for the cause, Avery, and I’m sure his comments wouldn’t change because of it. I believe (if I’m reading this correctly) Duncan was using the pronoun “you” in reference to the quibblers and students in general, which is who you addressed at the end of your comment. It’s unclear to me why he felt the need to say sorry.

Maddie – Getting budget disclosure is a much, much more difficult process than the switch to fair trade coffee, and I say that as an OxFam e-board member.

I agree with the majority of the posters about the Gaza demands not fitting with the nature of the protest. It sounds like two or three of the most radical TBNYU’ers decided that JUST HAD TO BE IN THERE, so it is. It’s too bad, because the rest of them seem to fit nicely with TBNYU’s agenda.

Silly undergrad stuff. You guys are a joke to both the real activists and the real students on campus.

[...] NYU Local: Duncan Meisel of TBNYU Explains the Kimmel Occupation [...]

Duncan’s defense of TBNYU is refreshing and eloquent.

It takes a lot of courage to be in Kimmel right now. You’re banking on amnesty as far school’s concerned, sure- and the police probably won’t mace you. But still- you’re throwing yourself out there- there’s criticism, pressure, scorn and ridicule to deal with.

The news this morning was actually relevant, you know. I had to sort through a storm of emotions- surprise at the student’s intensity, anger at the “Solidarity in Gaza” alignment, annoyance with what looks like “NYU’s Long List of Sin” and amusement at the kitty litter. Kitter litter. Really?

So, the occupation looks a bit theatrical. Well, let it be theatrical, respect it as a farce. We all know (or hope) that our prim and proud administrators wouldn’t actually spray pepper spray at us. They’d make amends for our dietary and excretory needs, right?

True, we sometimes suspect they’re there just to keep us from offing ourselves till we get off campus- and yet…secretly, we all hope they might just actually care.

‘Are they secretly screwing us over?’ we whimper at night. Is that the AIG they were with last night? Were those Israeli defense forces on campus the other day?

Why then, do students feel they have to barricade Kimmel to get attention? Does the administration really ignore them? Why? Actually, why all the secrecy about the budget to begin with?

And thanks to TBNYU for bringing it all to my attention.

So, the occupation looks a bit theatrical. Fine, let it be theatrical. We all know (or hope) that our prim and proud administrators wouldn’t actually spray us with

I think I’m in love. Lauren Barra, you hit the nail on the head. Of course everyone would cry to the heavens over the haphazard way in which TBNYU attempted to tie in the Gaza situation with their issues over transparency. But finally, someone points out the ridiculous “demand” of putting students on par with the Board of Trustees. It is laughable that that demand would be taken seriously by anyone who heard it. I definitely wouldn’t want anyone from TBNYU to be on that “oversight committee” they claim would be such a great idea, since they couldn’t even think through the repercussions of their “sit-in.”

Once their demands are heard by the general public, ALL students of NYU will end up being lumped in in the minds of the public with these poor excuses for activists (who apparently aren’t that active since they don’t want to actively take responsibility for their actions by asking for amnesty). Here’s my demand: SHUT UP! I’m trying to write my thesis at Bobst and I can’t concentrate over all the retarded chanting you’re doing! Yeah, I’m actually trying to get the work done that I payed for. Can’t wait for you guys to look back in ten years and say, “What the hell were we thinking?”

And I don’t think by transparency they meant for hideous hippie chicks to take their shirts off in the cold.

I think that any sane tuition paying NYU student can agree that the last thing that they would want is for some radical ideologue with no understanding of finance running our endowment, especially in these troubled times. The fact that TBNYU students are willing to barricade themselves in the Kimmel Center using a stack of chairs and tables, make a laundry list of nonsensical, disconnected, poorly supported demands, and then destroy university property in order to achieve their ambiguous “goals” is proof that they have no business making university policy.

When Mario Savio ascended the stairs at Berkeley in the 1960s, he said that he was doing so because “there comes a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part.” He was fighting to end the most brutal and unjust war in American history, and millions joined him in spirit because his cause was righteous. Duncan, you and your little friends are a far cry from Mario Savio. You are fighting because President Sexton didn’t respond to your poorly defined demands, and yet you run to the same method that he used to fight real injustice. This is probably why students on the street are holding signs that say “you suck” instead of rallying to TBNYU’s side (http://nyulocal.com/on-campus/2009/02/18/take-back-nyu-takes-kimmel-in-the-2009-occupation/).

If you get to make demands of NYU, I get to make demands of you. My only demand is that you answer the following questions:

1. Why does NYU need to open Bobst to the public? Is the New York Public Library system insufficient for the spread of knowledge and literacy? Is there something inherently wrong with limiting private resources to those who have been granted admission and pay for the maintenance of those resources? I don’t see any real harm in retaining Bobst for university use. In fact, it’s one of the reasons I chose to to attend NYU.

2. What is the basis of your claim that students be allowed oversight of the budget? A public university is obligated to reveal its expenses because taxpayer money is used to fund the institution and the general public is legally entitled to know what politicians are doing with tax dollars. Why does this apply to a private university? I understand the idea that you don’t want 100% of a budget invested in Lockheed and Raytheon, but that doesn’t mean you have any right to know what NYU’s portfolio looks like.

3. What specific investment strategy would you propose for NYU to employ? Do you have a socially responsible investment screen you prefer? I wouldn’t be comfortable handing over any control unless a solid plan were presented, which I do not believe exists.

4. Why should NYU be giving scholarships to students from Gaza?

5. What is the principle that unifies your demands?

Thanks,
Zach

As someone said, we are “consumers” of this “product”. It is unfortunate that education has become that way. Next year, I am transferring to a public university for the same reasons that TBNYU! uses to justify its protest.

The only problem with this is even if all of the people who left comments on this page transferred to another university, it would be a “chump change” loss for the institution — AND there are 3 other kids lined up for each of those spots who are willing to pay the money to come here.

Ultimately, the decision is up to each and every student to choose whether he or she wishes to continue contributing to an establishment of greed and corruption or to go to an institution with more oversight and transparency in its administration. Unfortunately, I don’t see vast flocks of TBNYU! members or current NYU students trotting to transfer next year.

“Campus government will not or cannot take on real issues, and no other students, faculty or staff have shown a willingness to organize against NYU’s administration when it counts.”

That’s because too many people are worried about far bigger issues (i.e. the mortgage crisis, the war, the recession, female trafficking, child slavery…) to “organize against” an organization that we PAID to be a part of. If you don’t like your product, go somewhere else. You applied to go here for a reason, and I’m sure it wasn’t to lock yourselves up in the student center and make every other NYU student annoyed.

TBNYU is neither intelligent, engaged, relevant or substantial. On the contrary, their actions, tactics, ever changing demands, disjointed vision and goals, and overall demeanor has continually discredited themselves and has shown them to be misguided and in fact unintelligent.

Excellent post Lauren. I’m also in Finance for Social Theorists and the level of ineptitude of some of my fellow seniors (including Duncan) is mind-blowing. He’s also very rude and dismissive of other students’ comments, by doing things like shouting “BULLSHIT” when he hears something he disagrees with.

It’s not surprising how he’s only succeeded in alienating this (overwhelmingly liberal) student body with his blog posts that take a similarly dismissive and arrogant tone.

[...] the most respected of “those kids” at NYU.  He stood by TBNYU!’s principles and gave us some awesome editorials.  He finally joined the protesters in Kimmel (baller – way to stand by your team!), but then [...]

WHy scholarships for kids in Gaza? Why not demand scholarship for kids in Hempstead or Crown Heights? Aren’t these just trust fund babies gone wild? The idea that kids who are going to school and have a plan to contribute to society are being denied use of this building because of a hissy fit by bored WTO-off season protesters is just outrageous. I hope the ex-hippies in the NYU leadership kick their butts. Better yet, bring in some construction workers from Ground Zero to have a “talk” with them. No cameras, just a little “worker” to “student” chat. I imagine the actual working people of America would like to diversify the lily white brats having a food fight in the cafeteria. Grow up, plant a tree, pick up trash on the highway, but stop wasting time. The overtime alone will cost a worthy student a scholarship.

I hope NYU doesn’t give into demands, and this results in the protesters’ expulsion.

So…. how’s that Obama thing working out for ya?….

[...] to NYU and I got expelled for barricading myself into the cafeteria to demand (among other things) amnesty for myself for barricading myself there, I would have my entrails stuffed up my [...]

hahah. Where do they find these people? Aren’t these people supposed to go on to become asshole, hothead, aggro CEOs and lawyers and shit?!?! Where did all the hothead psychopath teenagers go?!? I mean they have like 20 young people and not one of them can start screaming and punching cops or secretly bring in a zip gun or a flare gun? Fuck, UMASS has riots every fucking year just ’cause and they’re a bunch of new england hicks. This fucking video reads like a goddamn macbook ad.

[...] to NYU and I got expelled for barricading myself into the cafeteria to demand (among other things) amnesty for myself for barricading myself there, I would have my entrails stuffed up my [...]