I’ve decided that I fucking hate these people

I’ve often wondered about their name. Who are they taking back NYU from and who are they doing this for?

On the contrary, the FAS report shows substantial ongoing problems with pay inequality at NYU. Pay discrimination is not hearsay but cold, hard fact, and until NYU discloses the budget it will continue to go unrecognized.

Here are some conclusions from the FAS report:

• The departments which have more male faculty are more likely to
have a greater average salary than departments which have fewer male
faculty members.

• Female faculty overall are more likely to be more junior than their
male colleagues.

• Over a ten academic year period, 1996 to 2005, in tenure and
promotion, women faculty are disadvantaged, compared to their male
colleagues.

• The time to promotion and tenure is one year slower for women
faculty; this is not attributable to electing to delay the
tenure clock for births or adoptions.

• Women are more likely to be denied tenure and promotion. Men are
tenured at 1.5 times the rate of women faculty. 43 women were
promoted and 16 were denied tenure; 68 men were tenured and 12 were
not.

Furthermore, I have been unable to find any information concerning race and pay at NYU. Are people of color subject to the same discrimination as women, or worse? We have no idea, and have no way of finding out until NYU ends its secrecy and discloses the budget!

OK, Take Back NYU, you guys totally cherry picked data from that FAS report in 2006. I looked at the full report and you ignore all of the positive data. For example, you claim, “The departments which have more male faculty are more likely to have a greater average salary than departments which have fewer male faculty members.” But if you look at the graph of the data from 2005 there is a very weak correlation between male faculty percentage and average income. It is noticeably less correlated than it was in 2000. This is a sign of progress.

Of course, there are problems that need to be solved (the question of delayed tenure is an important one to deal with, even though you ignore that women are hired into higher positions at first). But there is no sign that NYU is acting in bad faith.

I am not against more transparency. But NYU is a private institution and their reasons for not releasing their budget are legitimate. If TBNYU wants to convince the NYU admins to release the data, eye rolling and cherry picked data are not good strategies.

As one of the many students involved in organizing this march, I would like to comment on the accuracy of this article’s title.

I love it. It’s almost entirely correct in my opinion. Simply change ‘or’ to ‘and’ and you’ve got it.

Speaking on behalf on many members of NOW and Take Back NYU!, we are, as most students at NYU, very busy individuals. Most of us hold down one or more jobs in order to pay for our tuition here at NYU; we are active in our communities and obviously, in our student organizations. When we take on the task of organizing a rally such as this one, it generally requires an additional sacrifice. For myself personally, the hours spent on publicity, student and faculty outreach, and other preparation for just one hour of ‘complaining’ were very taxing.

But while I have plenty to DO, I certainly have nothing BETTER to do than fight for my beliefs and protest injustices in the school to which so many of my resources are devoted.

Again, job well done. I regret being unable to read the remainder of this article, but I’m on my way to my night job…tuition’s due in just two more months, yikes!

if there is nothing to hide, why not share?

“if there is nothing to hide, why not share?”

You obviously don’t understand the concept of privacy.

I also participated in this march and, while I was somewhat uninformed about the FAS report (which I intend to go and read), there is talk about female faculty in the SCA Dept. being payed less than male faculty. The point is that none of this information can be verified because the budget will not be disclosed. Another point of the rally was to demand disclosure to ensure that it’s happening. We are not saying that it is or it isn’t. We want to know. Do you NOT want to know what NYU is using your tuition money on? I certainly do. I want to know where my money is being spent, on what, and by whom so that I can at least get a clearer picture of why this institution is so ridiculously expensive.

Also, as Julie said, we are all incredibly busy people who have one or more jobs, with plenty of homework, all while trying to balance social lives. We MAKE time for the things we believe in and do not stand idly by like many other people do. We get out there and try to start discussion around these issues, instead of sitting in meetings or with friends complaining. It’s one thing to complain, it’s another to take action. I support everything that NOW-NYU does as a group and I believe that one of the only ways to create change is by getting out there and making our voices heard. Sitting behind the veil of a computer screen complaining that we are unsubstantiated in our claims and that “you fucking hate these people” is no where near as effective as raising your voices, your signs, your ‘glass ceilings’ high and making yourselves heard to more than a select few. We have done what our rally was supposed to do: start discussion, so I’m glad you’re discussing. But until you’ve discussed these issues with us, I’d hold off on passing judgment.

I think that this is a legitimate concern, and the fact that so many who do not agree with the motives of this coalition have taken the time to read the FAS report, it is now, FINALLY, something that more people are open to discussion. Whether or not you believe NYU is guilty of gender discrimination, the fact still remains: gender discrimination is alive everywhere. This is a problem, and one that takes a lot of human effort. I think “complain” and “whine” were poor choices to say the least. I am actually really surprised that a newspaper run by students has been so critical of people who are practicing their freedom of speech and opinion. There has not been one solid argument against this coalition other than the notion that Take Back NYU! is a group of kids that “have nothing better to do.” Well, this is just one person’s opinion, but there are a lot of ways to go about getting an education. Is this not one of them?

Justin: It sounds like you need a hug.

Henry: We’re taking NYU back from the administration and Board of Trustees and, more importantly, GIVING NYU back to those who compose it– the people who learn and teach here.

Charlie: What is an acceptable level of injustice? When a report is issued saying that there are sexist, racist, or inhumane practices being committed under the name of NYU, regardless if it’s against one being or one thousand, it should not be tolerated. Let’s not pat NYU on the back for not being quite as awful as they were in 1919.

Chris: Secrecy (or, as you say, privacy) is only good for one thing– protecting corruption.

@ Frank and Caitilin

No, secrecy and privacy are very different and NYU is not being secretive. NYU is a *private* university composed of *private* individuals they choose to hire. Releasing the information you are all demanding would be a breach of the privacy of their faculty. If you want to know your professor’s salary, go transfer to a public university.

I am not a criminal or a racist and have nothing “to hide” but if you ever asked me to disclose my financial status to you would get the same answer as NYU gave you: NO!

There are a lot of factors that go into deciding who gets tenure, or who gets hired, not just their gender. The number of people hired is not so large that we should expect a 50-50 split between men and women. Maybe, just maybe, the men who got tenure were more qualified than the women who were candidates.

Somehow I don’t think you all would be so critical of NYU if women had an advantage in being hired and obtaining tenure. Affirmative action doesn’t fix problems, it just creates more.

Believe me Chris, you are never a criminal or a racist for preferring to keep your salary to yourself. However, the argument is that even if there is no evidence that there is gender disenfranchisement in terms of pay, there is really no way students or faculty could ever know it as a visible fact. It’s not really curiosity that drives the students to ask the administration to disclose the budget, its concern. Also, there were other, less private issues that were addressed last Monday evening. I heard a young woman mention that she was concerned about NYU investing in companies that are profiting off of the American was machine. There were concerns over whether or not NYU supported vivisection on campus, and I think John Sexton provided that student with the right information by directing them to the man in charge of that (named Pierre, I think). Finally, democracy is not pretty. Since the town hall is the closest thing this campus has to a “democratic process,” it really can’t be expected that there won’t be emotion and agitation at these meetings. While there can always be a little more respect here and there, I don’t think there is anything wrong with standing up to NYU.
P.S. Telling people to go to public universities, sounds a little yuppy. Maybe re-phrase that statement next time so you don’t offend anyone. Thanks and take care.
-Frank

I want to be clear: I am not against the overall motives of TBNYU. I think that if budget transparency is something that is important to you, definitely go fight for it. I am just arguing that you shouldn’t try to spin the data to fit your agenda! Acknowledge the good things that NYU is doing. First, applaud them for showing NO signs of pay inequality once age, tenure, and experience are controlled for! Then you can raise areas of concern and explain why you think more disclosure would be good. Maybe try shooting for smaller victories - getting the university to divulge its entire operating budget is pretty unlikely. As Chris said, this is a private, non-profit institution.

@ Caitlin: Your argument is exactly the kind I’m warning against. From the FAS report, there are NO signs that NYU is sexist. There are some areas that NYU needs to deal with, but the available data shows that they are. And saying “don’t pat them on the back for being quite as awful as they were in 1919″ is a surefire way to keep the university from taking you seriously. I made a legitimate point about a significant decrease in correlation from 2000 to 2005.

The other thing you all can do, request anonymized data. That way, you can go run your own statistical analysis, but the privacy problems might be alleviated somewhat. Just a thought.

The *possibility* of “gender disenfranchisement” is not enough reason for NYU to disclose personal information like TBNYU is demanding, even if NYU wanted to, it would be wrong.

As Charlie said, “anonymized data” is certainly a better approach but the premise of that is still wrong. Focusing on statistics so much is never a good thing. If NYU were to release that type of data it would just result in groups like TBNYU complaining because some statistic showed that men were 1.5x more likely to be hired or get tenure or whatever it may be.

I don’t want my university to be feel obliged to make sure there is a 50-50 split across the board on all issues and all professors. I want them to hire who they determine to be the best teachers, and give tenure to those who have shown the greatest achievement.

Placing importance upon statistics like these could only ever cause worse professors to be hired or better ones to lose out, whether they be a man or a women. I don’t pay $50,000/year to come to a school with a 50-50 split of men/women. I pay that much to receive a good education from the best professors NYU can get their hands on.

@Frank: The problem that I have with TBNYU! is not the cause that they’re fighting for, but rather, the way in which they fight for it. I was a the Town Hall meeting last Monday, and quite frankly, I was disgusted by the attitudes of members of TBNYU! who were present at the meeting. There was a complete lack of respect from TBNYU!. I was somewhat indifferent to your organization until I went to that meeting, but you guys made a terrible first impression. I can not support an organization that acts like this. I refuse to.

And I don’t know if you guys saw this, but Sexton looked offended when you accused him of perpetuating the gender pay gap. He claims he has worked hard to reduce the gap here at NYU, and looking at the FAS report and their conclusions, I believe him to be correct. Comparing the two FAS reports you can tell that there’s an improvement. Sure, there are issues that still need to be worked on, but I don’t doubt that NYU is working to fix them.

@Caitlin: Taking NYU back for me? For us students? Well, before you claim that your fighting for the students, I suggest you have the students on your side first.

[...] think a whole lot of folks have read some of the recent press about us. In light of our interest in full disclosure, I’d like to address some concerns [...]