And guess what, ladies? Sexual abuse is all your fault, as usual.
The Daily Princetonian, Princeton’s student newspaper, ran an op-ed penned by an incredibly naive freshman yesterday that asserts that female rape victims are just plain askin’ for it. Writer Neagu uses the example of a rape case initiated by one of her friends to illustrate her point that if rape victims were more responsible, then they’d be less rape-able. Neagu must have a heart of steel, because she completely tosses her friend under the bus, claiming she “knew what would happen if she started drinking.” (Yes, because obviously every time I start drinking I am aware that it will inevitably lead to unwanted sexual intercourse.) Imagine the reaction of Neagu’s friend– not only does someone she trusted enough to reveal details of the situation think that the whole scandal was her fault, but Neagu declares so publicly, riding the crest of her friend’s painful experience to a conclusion that is uninformed, hurtful and–dare I say it–completely wrong.
But sexist op-eds are written all the time for student publications, which brings us to a broader point: do student press organizations have a responsibility to table student-submitted pieces that are wildly offensive, or should they function as a platform for all student voices, no matter how… ridiculous?
By now you’ve gathered that I completely disagree with Neagu’s piece, but I’m actually going to argue something (kind of) in support of her now: I think that The Daily Princetonian, whose motives may have been less than pure (using a freshman as link-bate is clever but cruel), may have done the right thing in publishing this piece, even though it’s a bunch of garbage. If student presses are genuinely meant to function as the mouthpiece for students on campus, then running this op-ed was a service. Some of those students may be less informed than others, but that doesn’t make their viewpoints less valuable. The problem, however, becomes where you draw the line. If there are racist students on campus who want to pen offensive op-eds, does The Daily Princetonian have a responsibility to run them? What topics are simply too taboo to broach via an op-ed? I’m unsure what my opinion is on these questions, but I know that I personally would feel uncomfortable running an op-ed on NYU Local that could be taken as racist, sexist, etc.
I e-mailed Jack Ackerman, the editor-in-chief of The Daily Princetonian, to see if he could comment on why the paper decided to run a piece that was so obviously offensive. He has yet to respond.
Well in the instance of my article (linked above), the sexist op-ed to which it was responding was ultimately retracted by its own author–resulting in a “lesson” of sorts. But what if no one is there to react/respond effectively? It’s a tough question.
–Some of those students may be less informed than others, but that doesn’t make their viewpoints less valuable.
No, I do not agree with this assertion. People who are less informed, more likely then not, have less valuable viewpoints. Some viewpoints are inherently more valuable then others. When things like this go unchallenged and are not corrected, it gives people the excuse to feel the same way.
“If student presses are genuinely meant to function as the mouthpiece for students on campus, then running this op-ed was a service.”
Obviously, these sorts of editorial decisions vary per house, but I’d like to think that even campus papers feel as much of an obligation to quality content as they do ‘being a mouthpiece’ for the campus — and certainly more so, I hope, than to traffic. I mean, I know even campus papers aren’t shielded from raw economic reality, but you’d think that college papers at least would be spared from the celebrity-industrialized link economy? That is to say, I certainly hope Iulia’s editors have a better reason from printing this than to get attention.
Date rape victim-blaming, on the other hand, certainly ins’t a subaltered voice — even at Princeton; I’m sure the student body is plenty exposed to it regardless.
@Max Interesting. I get what you’re saying but not sure I agree.
Also: should I value your comment less because you used the incorrect form of “than” twice?
And guess what, fellas? You’re all rapists.
Jess, I think you’re reading this (poorly crafted) piece the wrong way. I don’t think (or at least I hope not) that her case was that women are the reason for rape. I think she’s calling for more equality and less sensationalism when it comes to rape claims.
“If both people were drunk and if the girl has the right to make the accusation of rape, then why shouldn’t the boy enjoy the same privileges? If a culprit is required, then both of them should be guilty or there should be no culprit at all.”
I think this is an important point to make: why are men burdened with both knowing how drunk THEY are and how drunk the woman they have sex with is, while the woman can blow off the sex and accuse the man of rape. This double standard really hurts both genders, by making all men seem like rapists and (in an ironic twist) taking away power for women. It is as if the law is saying that dem lil womenz can’t judge themselves how drunk they are, and its up to a big MAN to do it for them. Of course, that is ridiculous, and in a case where both parties were drunk and consensual sex occured (obviously you could argue that being drunk stops any consent from being given, but if both parties are drunk, then who’s being raped?), why is it that the woman is given the power to cry rape?
Now, don’t get me wrong, I know that rape occurs via drugs or force all the time, or perhaps even a guy getting a girl wasted to take advantage of her. I’m not debating that those are horrible men who deserve to be in jail. But what you seem to be arguing here is that a guy must be 100% sober and able to discern whether a girl he just met is drunk enough to not give consent before sex, and even if the guy is WAY more hammered than the girl, he is still at fault because he didn’t realize the girl was beyond what society says is the “drunk line” for consent.
“Since so much is at stake, it seems that the last thing we want to do is to accuse people of things for which they are not entirely to blame. In circumstances like these, accusations should be made with the utmost consideration.”
I may disagree with the crafting of this piece, but Neagu makes a good point here: lives are torn apart by the accusation of rape, and in this day and age, the power lies almost entirely on the woman, who may use alcohol as an excuse to call rape for sex she regrets. It is the responsibility of the courts to discern the differences between these accusations and real accusations of rape. If redefining rape is what is necessary, I think it needs to be done.
As for your other point, I think we trust our editors (we being the journalistic community) to judge what is worthy to publish and what is not, even in op-eds. If a student submits a paper calling all black people on campus the “n” word and generally perpetuating stereotypes, I think it is the duty of the editor to reject that op-ed. However, in this case, I think it is warranted, because Neagu’s point is valuable for a discussion, even if it seems completely wrong.
phew. tldr
Luis:
This is a very simple issue. I’m not going to write a tl:dr response to your diatribe, but I do have a few points to make:
Rape is never the victim’s fault. A woman who goes out, even if she is drinking, even if she is wearing “slutty” clothing, is not “asking for it.” Maybe she wants to have a good time. That doesn’t mean it’s ok for someone to force her to have sex.
Rape is an under-reported crime. There have been many high-profile, media-fueled cases in which a woman claims rape and it turns out she is lying. These cases are not the norm. It takes an incredible amount of courage to file a police report, especially when society views rape victims as liars and sluts.
You wrote: I think this is an important point to make: why are men burdened with both knowing how drunk THEY are and how drunk the woman they have sex with is.
Because that’s what being a responsible adult means, Luis.
You are defending the despicable actions of rapists by perpetuating the myth that women are untrustworthy whores who have no right to their own bodies.
Get a grip.
Don’t twist around what I said, Keyana.
“Because that’s what being a responsible adult means, Luis.”
Why isn’t the woman burdened with the SAME EXACT responsibility? Are women not responsible adults? I’m not defending rapists, I said so in my post. But when both parties have been drinking and having a good time which then leads to sex, it is both parties that were intoxicated, so why is it that only men are usually accused of rape?
I never said anything about provocative clothing, or asking for it. I’m just arguing for gender equality (remember our discussion yesterday?) in which the entire responsibility to check for consent doesn’t rely on the man.
This is without getting into the even more under-reported cases of women raping men, WHICH FUCKING HAPPENS. Sorry for the caps, but its very true, I have had personal (well not me, but close friends) experiences with this. If you want to talk about rape being under-reported, you’ll have my agreement. Just know that its not a one-way street.
My issue with your reply lies here: “Rape is never the victim’s fault”
I agree 100%. However, why is it that the woman is automatically the victim?
I really did not want to throw my hat into this ring of fire, but there is one important point I want to make re: Luis and Keyana’s comments.
In situations that could be construed as rape, but are not, I would equate a man’s responsibility to know how drunk he is and how drunk the woman he is screwing is with a woman’s responsibility not to throw around accusations of rape. In the first situation, women tend to be the victim, and in the latter, men tend to be the victim.
Both situations suck, but in all seriousness I can’t think of many things that compares to the trauma of being raped. It’s the most invasive form of violence that doesn’t (necessarily) lead to death.
Because statistically, women are the victims.
Don’t pull the “men get raped too” card. Yes. It happens. Yes. It’s horrible.
But according to RAINN, 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, and only 1 in 33 men will be. It’s impossible to escape the fact that women are raped more often than men. Public discussion of the topic will inevitably be framed by gender.
So let’s remove gender from the discussion:
You seem to be suggesting that a victim, if drunk, cannot reasonably accuse someone of rape, simply because the victim was drinking. That the victim’s judgment was impaired, so clearly, the fault must lie with the victim and not the perpetrator. This makes no sense.
Checking for consent is not a “burden” that men have been subjected to. It’s a common courtesy that all adults, male or female, should observe.
Also: laws do exist to punish women who wrongly accuse men of rape. Most of them are related to perjury.
@Luis
First, let’s make sure we define sexual assault. The accepted definition (care of Stanford) is:
You wouldn’t argue that an 11-year-old girl is capable of giving consent, would you? Or a severely developmentally challenged person? If there are drunk driving laws hinged on the fact that drinking stunts your decision-making abilities and reaction time, then it’s understandable that drinking can also impair a person’s ability to give consent. The author of this op-ed does not seem to understand this.
This op-ed asserts that women who were drinking on the night they were raped should not be allowed to declare that act rape. It does not say that ANY sexual act that occurs while drunk is rape, so no, it is not saying that all men are rapists. It IS saying that all women who drink and then get into a sexual situation deserve to be raped.
That’s not what this article and this issue is about, though. It’s not that women aren’t capable of judging how drunk they are because they’re women, it’s because they’re too drunk to judge ANYTHING, including how drunk they are. If the man is sober, he should NOT be sleeping with a drunk girl because her state makes it impossible for her to make clear decisions (and vice versa for a sober girl and drunk guy, BTW). If the man is drunk, then he too is incapable of gauging the mood of the situation, and should also avoid having sex with a (sober OR drunk) girl. The point is simple and clear: neither party should be engaging in sexual intercourse with someone they don’t know if they’re too drunk to judge if it’s going to be a regretful situation. The reason most of the blame gets heaped on men is because rape by a man occurs at a much higher rate than rape by a woman. When both parties are too incoherent to comprehend their actions, it becomes messier, and both parties should be held accountable. But slut-shaming women into being too scared to report a crime that’s already highly under-reported the way this article does is inexcusable.
What frustrates me the most about your reply is the basic assumption that your opinion sits upon. You’re assuming that there are tons and tons of women out there who are getting drunk, having sex, waking up the next morning and regretting it, then accusing their poor, poor male sexual partner of rape. It deeply offends me that you seem to think this kind of thing is so popular. It makes me fear that you have a pretty negative opinion about women if you believe a large percentage of us are rape-crying constantly. I’m not saying this situation doesn’t happen EVER, but it is certainly far more rare than you make it out to be, and should not be used as a way to shame women who have actually been raped into not speaking up for fear of being categorized as a rape-cryer.
And okay, I get it. Men can be raped. But just because like 1 out of every 890432 rape case is a woman raping a man doesn’t mean you can draw a correlation between the situations. You’re a modern man. You want things to be completely ~~equal~~. But in terms of rape and blame the sides AREN’T equal, because it is almost always the man acting aggressively upon the woman. Men are not the victims here–not because I think women are better than men or deserve better treatment, but because STATISTICALLY, men are so rarely the victims in rape cases.
I could go on and on but this entire thread is already tl;dr.
I never said that men get raped at even a fraction of the rate that women do, but it happens, therefore can’t be ignored. But fine, I’ll remove gender from the discussion.
I am not suggesting at all that the victim is to blame. Please understand that. What I am arguing for is a change in how we come to the conclusion of WHO is the victim, in certain cases. And if both parties are drunk, why is one party more the victim than the other? If you can explain that to me, in a way that isn’t just “because women get raped more”, then I will gladly move on.
And you can’t call something “common courtesy” that leads to lives being wrecked and claims of rape being made. It is a burden in a court of law, wherein a man (or a woman) may have to defend themselves against a claim of rape that may completely false.
And yes, perjury exists. However, you can’t compare the sentence that comes along with perjury to the sentence (and social repercussions) that come with being even ACCUSED of rape (nonetheless convicted, especially if falsely so).
Keyana:
I think you missed the point of Luis’s comment. The argument is that being a responsible adult is a pendulum that swings both ways. Rather than blindly supporting accusations of acquaintance rape, we must look at both sides of the story. How can it be that a woman can be too drunk to be responsible, yet so often the man is held responsible for his actions no how much he drank?
There are clear instances of purposeful rape, however what this piece attempts to do is broach the gray areas, like acquaintance rape. Men are equally capable of being, both mentally and physically, violated. A woman taking a drunk man to her apartment should be just as responsible for raping him as he would in the reverse situation,
So to revise Luis’s question: Why are men burdened with both knowing how drunk THEY are and how drunk the woman they have sex with is, when women aren’t?
You wrote: You are defending the despicable actions of rapists by perpetuating the myth that women are untrustworthy whores who have no right to their own bodies.
I believe you are furthering the myth that men are irresponsible brutes while women are dainty ladies incapable of shouldering responsibility.
Inevitably, both parties bear responsibility for sexual activity. There are plenty of cases of violent, coerced, and forced rape that are dealt with in our justice system in which clearly the victim bears no blame. However what this article was attempting to explore, are the un-prosecuted instances of drunken sex, mis-labeled acquaintance rape, that are swarmed by individuals waving the banner of ‘victim blame’.
@Jess:
First thing you need to remember is that I said that the article raises good points, not that I am in agreement with it. I’ll even quote myself:
“Jess, I think you’re reading this (poorly crafted) piece the wrong way. I don’t think (or at least I hope not) that her case was that women are the reason for rape. I think she’s calling for more equality and less sensationalism when it comes to rape claims.”
Again, I am hoping that the claim she was trying to make wasn’t what you thought I thought it was (if that makes sense).
“It does not say that ANY sexual act that occurs while drunk is rape, so no, it is not saying that all men are rapists. It IS saying that all women who drink and then get into a sexual situation deserve to be raped.”
Isn’t that what your definition of sexual assault indicates though? That all sexual acts while drunk ARE in fact sexual assault, because consent could not be given? My quote was directed more at you than at the article.
“It’s not that women aren’t capable of judging how drunk they are because they’re women, it’s because they’re too drunk to judge ANYTHING, including how drunk they are. If the man is sober, he should NOT be sleeping with a drunk girl because her state makes it impossible for her to make clear decisions (and vice versa for a sober girl and drunk guy, BTW). If the man is drunk, then he too is incapable of gauging the mood of the situation, and should also avoid having sex with a (sober OR drunk) girl. ”
So the man is too drunk to judge ANYTHING as well, including that he should not have sex with anyone. The woman should also avoid having sex with a (sober OR drunk) boy. Why is it that you only addressed one side of the issue? You say in parentheses that it applies the other way, but alas, you don’t back it up in your next sentence. This is why dual drunk situations become harder and in that case, both parties were raped, if we go by your definition.
“The reason most of the blame gets heaped on men is because they are most often the ones who are sober, having sex with a girl who is drunk. ”
You will get no argument from me here. But like I said to Keyana, most does not equal all, and just because its rarer for it to happen to men, doesn’t mean we can ignore it.
“What frustrates me the most about your reply is the basic assumption that your opinion sits upon. You’re assuming that there are tons and tons of women out there who are getting drunk, having sex, waking up the next morning and regretting it, then accusing their poor, poor male sexual partner of rape. ”
As I said in my IM, I am realistic enough to understand that it isn’t an every day thing. BUT it does happen, and again, it can’t be ignored. It also happens more than you might like to think it does, but I have seen it happen too many times to not have to point it out.
“I’m not saying this situation doesn’t happen EVER, but it is certainly far more rare than you make it out to be, and should not be used as a way to shame women who have actually been raped into not speaking up for fear of being categorized as a rape-cryer.”
Clearly we disagree (and this might be based on both experiences and research) on how much it occurs. If that is a way to shame women into not reporting, then know that my intention is not that. My intention is to not have the opposite occur: making it too easy for women to falsely accuse men of rape, and send innocent men to jail. This is where we must have faith in our judicial system, to sort through the real cases of rape and the false.
“And okay, I get it. Men can be raped. But just because like 1 out of every 890432 rape case is a woman raping a man doesn’t mean you can draw a correlation between the situations. ”
Thanks to Keyana’s statistics up there, we can see that its about 1/5 as rare for a man to be raped as it is for a woman. Is 20% really little enough to dismiss?
Luis is merely suggesting that men and women should be responsible adults. He’s not putting the blame on victims at all. I think that both men and women need to be responsible with their alcohol intake and be aware of their surroundings.
If you are blackout drunk at a crowded party, you are being irresponsible and putting yourself in a position where someone can take advantage of you.
In a perfect world, I would be able to drunkenly walk down a dark alley in a mini skirt and not be in danger. That is not the world we live in. As women, we need to be aware of our surroundings and remove ourselves from potentially dangerous situations.
@Luis We are going to have to agree to disagree but I seriously urge you to read up on this subject.
Also, I don’t get your math.
17% of women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.
.03% of men will be sexually assaulted.
That seems like a pretty huge gap to me. Not to mention that I bet further research would indicate that the people who assaulted the 17% of women and the .03% were almost all men themselves.
Anyway. Yeah. Agree to disagree. This thread has exhausted me.
@Jess
1/6 = 17%
1/33 = 3%, not .03%
Therefore, it is 1/5 as rare for men to be raped.
And yeah, I’m pretty wiped out from all this TLDR-ness.
@Veronica
It makes me so sad that you seriously think this!! Ahh!!! Rape is a VIOLENT crime, not a sexual one. It doesn’t matter what you’re wearing. Being pretty or dressing provocatively doesn’t make a rapist want to rape you more.
@Luis
Okay I don’t understand fractions but I believe you! Haha. My point still stands– the important statistic is that of all the people in jail for sexual assault, only 1.4% are women.
@Jess That has to do as much with the general problem that men are even less likely than women to report rape, and to get convictions for their assailants. That’s another problem with rape statistics: the vast amount of cases that go unreported, dealing with both men and women. So that “important statistic” is really not that important.
@Luis Isn’t this exactly WHY we have a judicial system?
@Marley I am not “perpetuating” that men are brutes. In fact, they are not. So we should expect them to act accordingly. And a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape should absolutely be punished for it.
@Keyana Yes, and if there wasn’t an issue of perception in jury’s minds about rape, I wouldn’t be complaining. However, since humans aren’t robots, perpetuating ideas that women are so much more likely to be raped than men, and that men are at fault for mutually-intoxicated sex does influence that very same judicial system. I hate to say it, but this isn’t a perfect world.