Barnard is not the “GSP of Columbia” but the historically woman’s college associated with Columbia because Columbia was historically men only. It remains separate from Columbia and has nothing to do with LSP.

Josh, I support you in all of your endeavors, but I agree with Cooper. Barnard is pretty damn good (not to say GSP isn’t).

See the joke was a comment on the stigma many Barnard students complain of receiving from Columbia students. I probably couldn’t get into either of those schools. Cooper, I didn’t realize you were a Barnard spokesman.

It took me a long time to decide whether or not I should comment, but I finally decided that I needed to. (Hard decision because I have mad love for Josh.) That said…

This post is mean-spirited and unproductive, to put it plainly. All it does is take a poor freshman’s writing out of context for the sole purpose of exploiting and mocking it.

If you read Shelby Layne’s piece in its entirety, you’ll notice that it’s a harmless–if at times clumsy–attempt to earnestly describe the new city she lives in.

This is why “journalism is dying?” No. (Journalism is dying because print classified and advertising revenue went the way of Craigslist and Internet, along with the fact that print publications can’t compete with the Internet’s $0 overhead. It has nothing to do with freshmen journalism students trying to find their voice.)

This type of post doesn’t advance journalism in any way whatsoever. All it does is discourage people from sharing their work online, which is exactly the wrong incentive to promote.

Anyone who’s been the target of Internet bullying knows how unhelpful posts like these are, and anyone who hasn’t been torn apart online should find someone who has been. Legitimate critique is necessary, but going through a freshman’s writing line-by-line for quotes to sneer at is, as I’ve said, unproductive and hurtful.

I am responding to this but on my lil blog and not the comments section of this article because this is really not NYU Local’s article.

And by “NYU Local’s article” I mean “NYU Local’s problem.”

[...] Tha (PC) Police By Josh I received a comment on an NYU Local piece I wrote. Here is what he [...]

As someone who has frequently been a victim of “internet bullying,” I still find this hilarious.

@Josh, I’m a GSP/LSP spokesperson. And I love reading your posts…but…

@David, I completely agree with what you say and had wanted to comment on taht myself, but I couldn’t formulate the right words to do so, so I only commented on the GSP/LSP thing.

And as I’ve asked time and time again, why does NYULocal have to be so negative and snarky all the time?

Somebody has to be, Cooper. Somebody has to be.

This girl’s certainly not going to be winning a Pulitzer anytime soon but wow, she’s been at college a month, give her a break.

And that’s what’s wrong with the world today.

Lighten up, people. Those of us who come from small-town America remember how, after two weeks in the city, we were already calling home and turning in Writing the Essay papers about how urban and open-minded we’d become. It’s not mean-spirited to have a good laugh about how a kid at Barnard is going through the same. In five years I’ll be rolling my eyes about how at 21 I thought I knew more than this girl about being a “true New Yorker.”

Madeline: yes. I’ve recently been reading old blog posts I wrote 2 years ago, and my god was I an idiot. I still am, but I’m also maybe 1% more wised-up. Maybe.

I feel like NYU Local is less and less distinguishable from gawker these days. The question is: are we doing journalism any favors by picking apart something as innocent, if naive, as Shelby’s piece?

@Josh Exactly. Anybody with the humility to recognize the naivete of their own work–past and present–can have a chuckle at this piece.

@Madeline My thoughts exactly.

Okay. I posted this on my blog. I wanted to veer this away from the comments section of NYU Local. That didn’t work. So I am reprinting. This was in response to David’s comment, but it may as well be for everyone. Also this is the last thing I’m saying about Shelby.

***

I agree that making fun of Columbia’s journalism outputs isn’t necessarily “productive.” But not every post can be a listicle or an expose on university malpractices or a series of helpful tips on navigating the city. Sometimes, things deserve to be made fun of.

Now this may sound defensive, but, in fairness, I feel the need to defend myself here. I was not “Internet bullying.” That’s when you pick on someone, unprovoked, for the sole purpose of humiliating that person. While I think Shelby wrote a stupid article, this wasn’t an attack against her, since I don’t really know her outside of the stupid things she said in her stupid, presumptuous, meaningless opinion piece. So I guess it was kind of against her, since I was mocking her opinions, but I’m sure she’s a nice girl besides.

But yeah, sorry Charlie, this wasn’t Internet bullying. This wasn’t “mean old Internet bully goes after innocent little op-ed piece.” Guess what? When you post something online, you open yourself up for commentary. Some of that will be praise, and some of it will be ridicule. It’s why I can write an NYU Local post on the passage of Prop 8 and get called a fag. If you post something online—especially something that exposes your opinion—you have to be ready for critique. And when you post an opinion piece that instructs others how to think or behave, you better fucking be prepared for disagreement. If you’re not, then don’t post it in the first place.

And, um, I never said I was trying to “advance journalism.” NYU Local is a student blog. I write posts about creative date ideas; I’m not exactly angling for a Pulitzer. The Spectator, on the other hand, is a newspaper. Sure, Shelby wrote an opinion piece, but it’s still a different kind of op-ed than one that might appear in a blog. I wouldn’t have posted my critique in the Washington Square News. In an age when newspapers and other forms of s0-called “traditional journalism” are being deemed irrelevant and obsolete by blog-consuming Internet users, yes, posting an insipid piece in a newspaper is emblematic of some of the reasons why “journalism is dying.”

And I don’t think I was taking Shelby’s writing out of context. And I think it’s nice how the commenter in question slipped in a tiny criticism of his own while chiding me for, um, doing the same.

I admit I’m harsh with my making-fun-of-Columbia posts, but frankly, I don’t give a fuck. If I think you deserve to be made fun of because you publicly expressed opinions that reveal you to be (or at least seem) elitist, arrogant, or just plain stupid, then I’m going to make fun of you. I encourage others to do the same with any of my posts they hate.

Ok, NYU Local is not at all like Gawker in terms of nastiness. Way to pick out one post that maybe went a little overboard with the snark and act as if we’re constantly targeting poor Shelbys. That’s just inaccurate; if anything, we’ve been totally lessening “Gawker” tone and doing more original reporting, establishing a style guide that veers away from obsessive snark, etc.

As Josh’s best friend, I’m inclined to be even MORE critical of his work just because I know he can hack it. But I seriously thought that this was genuinely funny– not because I think Shelby is the worst writer ever, or because it’s fun to be an asshole on the internet, but because I completely relate to where she’s coming from. I’ve lived here for over three years and I still manage to draw the ire of real New Yorkers with my sheer existence (as any NYU student should be able to attest). And yet, I still continue to expound upon theories that amount to “this is New York” in like 7/10 of my blog posts. It’s not even that I used to be able to relate to Shelby, it’s that I totally still do.

As someone who is perpetually wayyyyy too emotionally impacted by things random people say on the internet about me, I can understand why people would want to jump to Shelby’s defense. Josh may have exceeded today’s limit on snark, but it’s clear by the end of the piece that he relates to Shelby and knows that neither of them are “real New Yorkers” (yet). Everyone chill and go binge drink or something. And Shelby, if by chance you’re reading this, you should know that you’re not alone in using writing to try to parse what the hell this city is all about.

I wasn’t going to comment, because I agree that the column was fairly stupid, but I was mostly just irked by how defensive Jess and Josh have been about this all day. Some people thought this was mean-spirited, you don’t agree and continue to argue that the only explanation is THEY IZ READING IT RONG, and on and on and on.

I even thought this post was pretty funny, but if people didn’t, it was because whatever your intent was didn’t come across to them in your writing. All right, fine, move on. I mean this thread has what, like, 19 comments? Eight of them are from you two trying to further explain to readers why they just don’t get it? I love your blog, but come on…

@Jill: I commented twice, which is equal to (or lesser than!) the number of times most people involved in this discussion commented. There are also other people in this thread defending the post (and commenting two or more times!), but for some reason you don’t have a problem with them stating their opinions. Giving me shit for commenting in the same way as other students is ridiculous. And saying you “like our blog” at the end of writing a comment that contributed nothing to the conversation but unnecessary dickishness is kind of the internet equivalent of prefacing a really nasty statement with “No offense, but….”

But I dunno I guess I’m just being defensive.

LOL Jess doesn’t even have to be “defensive” because she didn’t write this.

This is worse than that time I was “in the article.”

I agree, NYU Local has turned down a lot of the snark, so I commend you guys for that!

And I also like you guys’s blog, as you know by my regular comments

What is it with NYU Local getting so pissy about Columbia’s student paper? Can’t we stick to ripping on WSN?

Jesus Christ, this has to be the most commented on story since the TBNYU fucktards occupied Kimmel. But also, I second what Jay said.

I thought this was pretty hilarious. A little snarky, yes, but go onto any similar blog website and you’ll find plenty of “mean-spirited and unproductive” posts such as this one… or worse. This post is pretty harmless and all in good fun.

Journalism is dying because people like you don’t bother to check any facts before they go to print. Barnard is not the the GSP of Columbia. Barnard in fact is much harder to get into than NYU

I’ve stayed out of this ridiculous comment section on purpose, but I’m in a more grouchy mood today and I just can’t help myself, Mark. Saying Barnard is to Columbia what GSP is to NYU doesn’t address at all whether or not Barnard is more difficult to get into than NYU. Josh wasn’t comparing Barnard and NYU. He was making an analogy. Whether or not you agree with his analogy is up to you.

I love you, Josh.

I thought this was hilarious, and I love Josh’s writing style. He’s right, this is a blog and not a newspaper. Opinion and snark have more of a place here, and should be accepted as such.

It’s frankly shocking that the editors of Columbia’s newspaper would allow such a naive piece of preachy drivel be printed in their pages. Someone had to say something, and I’m just glad it was said with as much wit as Josh is able to muster.

I mean, yeah, if Shelby Layne read this (she probably has!), it would probably hurt her feelings, but hurting her feelings may nevertheless accomplish something. Namely, next time she takes the time to write a thinkpiece sermon, she maybe will write it a little bit better, or at least less easy to make fun of. Let’s please not act like this is the first time someone has been teased for screwed up at something they’re new at. This isn’t an internet thing. We have clichés for this stuff. “Taking your licks,” etc.

At the same time: let me say how much I actually love what Shelby is saying here. Like, wow: “Therefore, I challenge you all to take advantage of these precious moments that present themselves each and every day in this wonderful city.” That’s doesn’t exactly go down easy, but it’s kind of striking that a Columbia student (seriously OF ALL PEOPLE) is telling her classmates that maybe poor people are, like, actual human beings. Although: actually, it’s super depressing that she treats that fact as some sort of revelation. (YOU GUYS! GUESS WHAT!) If she would only lose that dreadful sense of noblesse oblige, maybe I could actually give her some credit for this thing. (Oh, honey, TRUST ME: there is more to life that being able to call yourself a true New York cosmopolitan–I almost can’t even believe you think anyone wants ‘to be able’ to do that!)

I’m a little late (really late) to this, but Shelby’s article – …No.

Josh’s post was kind.

John – Barnard’s annual tuition is about $7,000 less than NYU’s. Columbia College’s annual tuition is the same as NYU’s. Why is it shocking that a Columbia student, “OF ALL PEOPLE, “is telling her classmates that maybe poor people are, like, actual human beings”?

NYU is full of oblivious rich kids.

@Julia: Well, for one, because The Ivy League is an unapologetically classist notion! But you make a very fair point–NYU is just as full of oblivious rich kids as Columbia if not moreso. I could have just as easily said an NYU student OF ALL PEOPLE. I actually don’t think there is anything wrong with being an oblivious rich kid, though!

But I still think it’s a striking statement (and I said “striking”–not “shocking”), because an Elite Private Institution of Higher Learning is an institution for and by the social elite. I think it’s absolutely fabulous that these schools bestow some social mobility upon a very small subset of poor conformists–it’s very generous of them–but the social function of a degree from NYU or Columbia is nevertheless entitlement. These degrees grant selective access to the ‘global’ economy’s tremendous wealth generation machinery.

And in that way, I think the paradox is obvious. It was something I was trying to give Shelby credit for–it is certainly a credit to her that her brain is able to negotiate her matriculation at Barnard and her feeling that maybe she is not actually ‘better’ than Chinese-immigrant subway performers. Because one the big lies that oblivious rich kids at both NYU and Columbia believe (myself included!) is that education is about skills and knowledge when it’s really about access and privilege*.

*Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

*shrugs* Josh Becker is a pretentious asshole and has been for years. He grew up in a not-so-cosmopolitan town himself, and ripping on this freshman is his way of feeling better about himself and convincing himself he isn’t as much of a poseur as she is. It’s completely understandable.